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 PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:36 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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The 2016 Presidential Election according to Star Wars. The candidates are...

Hillary Clinton



and

Donald Trump



Couldn't resist. Razz
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:20 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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One thing that I think part of that image is because social media has just basically become "media"; the spectacle. Politicians know that and that is the main focus of their campaign. It's very important for them to seem timely because the public is so hyper aware now and if they aren't on the pulse then they become irrelevant instantly.

But I would argue that actually achieving that hurts them instead of helps them. That has been the opposite of what almost every former president has done. They have tried to present themselves as salt of the earth, even when they were not. It makes a lot of sense to be "simple". If you put yourself below the masses then you can rise up to meet them. If you are seen as above them though, they will resent it and trying to come down to meet them is going to be met with skepticism. There's nothing less cool than trying to be cool.

George W Bush is perhaps the best example. He was made fun of for being dumb, but I think that was what made him so popular. He was relatable. Of course he wasn't dumb. He graduated from an Ivy league college. He was smart enough to play dumb.

Even if you hated his policies, I think that few people hated him as a person. Most people thought he was a good guy and respected him, while disagreeing with him. That's the difference now. People hate these candidates personally. Trump is an outlier, but Hillary especially, moreso than even Obama is just a pretty typical politician. I think the negative image is due to what I have been talking about.
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:59 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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yay! Only one week to go until America officially becomes a Fascist state.

Did you catch it when Trump said, "Obama has deported millions of people"? I know, I was shocked to hear Trump say something that was actually true. Obama deported more Mexican immigrants than George W. Bush. But it really highlights the difference between the two candidates.

On a funny note, IDK why but my mom got an early ballot, and she didn't know that the federal card was included with the state one, so she voted for the state issues and forgot to vote on the president.

Now I get to tell her she's an anarchist and it's all her fault for ruining the country. Twisted Evil
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:01 pm Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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I believe that I mentioned before the most recent election that I would like for the U.S. to get away from the two-party system by building up third (and so on) parties. I believe everyone should see what political parties are out there and find the one that best matches their political beliefs. Check out their platforms and see if they support the same things that you do.

Putting words into action, I've done just that. For me, it's the Constitution Party http://www.constitutionparty.com/. I'm even getting involved by helping them design a party logo at the national level. And, who knows, I may get more involved at the state and local level.

I encourage everyone to look for themselves. Maybe you agree with the Libertarian Party, or the Green Party, or something else. Maybe you just agree with the Democrat Party or Republican Party. *shrug* Whatever, the idea is to reduce the power and influence of the Dems and Repubs for a more balanced political environment.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:47 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Skywalker2B wrote:
I believe that I mentioned before the most recent election that I would like for the U.S. to get away from the two-party system by building up third (and so on) parties.

I honestly believe that would be one of the healthiest things for Western democracies right now. People need to get out of the "A vote for [independent party] is a vote for [major party]" mindset. Time to blast open the echo chambers and start really talking.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:58 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Well, Hillary won the popular vote...

It's not that people have a two party mindset, it's that that is the way that voting is set up. You have delegates that are pledged to vote for their party, it's not like they are going to change their mind. I've said before that I live in a red state, because I know that my states votes will always go to a Republican.

I'm not saying to abolish the Electoral College, but the absolute reason we have this system is because it's set up as "winner take all", the person who gets the most votes gets all the votes and the others get none. You already know how every state is going to vote even before the election. That is why Clinton was projected to win.

That is what has happened every time, and the elections where it didn't happen was because of "swing states", a hand full of states that are evenly divided and could go either way. In those cases it has come down to like two states that have made the difference.

Forget two parties to choose from. Two States decided the president! How are you going to have a third party work in there?

Actually, just forget the president. Third parties are viable if they focus on a smaller scale. We have had that before and maybe we can have it again. The smaller you go the more effective. In City government there are tons of positions where the same person wins over and over again because they are literally the only person who ran for the position.
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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:18 pm Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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DPW,

While I don't fully agree with some of your statements about the electoral college, I do agree with your last paragraph. I believe that 3rd parties should focus on local and state level elections/positions first. Once we have more viable 3rd parties, we'd need to look at how electoral college delegates are determined. But, we have a ways to get before we get to that point I think.


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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:08 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Which parts do you disagree with? I'm curious to know. That wasn't really meant to be a criticism; I'm not sure there even is one, at least from me.

People think that if the popular vote doesn't match the EC that is a problem with the democratic process. I get that. But I haven't really heard or thought about how to go about reforming that, or even if that would be worthwhile.
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:50 pm Reply with quote  
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  Salaris Vorn
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Reepicheep wrote:
The 2016 Presidential Election according to Star Wars. The candidates are...

Hillary Clinton



and

Donald Trump



Couldn't resist. Razz


I'm not entirely sure the "unlimited power" doesn't apply to Trump now and all what with the way he doesn't seem to like judicial oversight of the executive branch. Nevertheless this did amuse me.
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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:45 am Reply with quote  
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  Alan Skywalker V
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Just found this on Reddit, and I think it's a pretty good analysis of why Hillary lost the election.

I want to say this as clearly as possible: Liberals, you went too far.

All of the polling data showed that the majority of Americans supported compassionate immigration reform. You turned around and called for a pathway to citizenship that would have shifted American electoral politics dramatically to the left for decades to come. President Barack Obama, after saying no less than 30 times that he didn’t have the legal authority to do so, decided to bypass Congress and give amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants by executive order. When a Federal judge ordered the administration to stop, they kept sending out amnesty paperwork anyway. When Kate Steinle was murdered by a five-time deported illegal immigrant in a Sanctuary City, you spoke out in favor of letting potential-killers roam the streets to further your commitment to political correctness. Instead of looking at the real pain caused by illegal immigration in this country, you went to bat for people whose first act in this country was to break our laws. You went too far on immigration and you lost.

Most polling data shows that a plurality of Americans support sensible “common sense” gun control. This election season, you defined the term “common sense” for the first time… and it was terrifying. You chose a Presidential candidate who promised to eliminate the individual right to keep and bear arms by reversing the very Supreme Court case (Heller v DC) that affirmed that Americans have the right to own a gun. You nominated a candidate who promised to ban entire categories of weapons based not on their lethality, but on what attachments they have and what they look like. You went too far on gun control and you lost.

The vast majority of Americans supported the idea of revamping healthcare to make it affordable. Instead of working alongside Republicans, you jammed a healthcare bill down our throats using a parliamentary maneuver that allowed it to pass without a single Republican vote. One of your chief architects of the ACA said, on camera, that the law passed because of the stupidity of the American voter. When faced with the reality of premiums skyrocketing and health insurance companies leaving the system all together, you refused to admit that people were upset because you went too far. Instead, you nominated a candidate who argued the system was falling apart because we didn’t go far enough. You went too far on healthcare and you lost.

The majority of Americans support the idea of “free trade.” But you nominated a candidate who called the Trans-Pacific Partnership the “gold standard of trade agreements,” a candidate who celebrated, alongside her husband, when NAFTA passed and when China entered the WTO. When Democrats had the chance to kill the Trans-Pacific Partnership last year, 14 Senate Democrats voted alongside Republicans to give the President power to negotiate on it further. Those same Democrats voted for a companion bill (Trade Adjustment Assistance Act of 2015) to set-aside billions of dollars to retrain the hundreds of thousands of Americans who would lose their jobs as a result of TPP. You went too far on trade and you lost the entire Rust Belt as a result.

The country was roughly split 50/50 on the issue of abortion. Donald Trump stood on a Presidential debate stage and say that yes, if elected his Supreme Court judges would overturn Roe v Wade. Four years ago, many said Romney lost the election because of his “binders full of women.” By any measure, Donald Trump’s statement should have lost him the election. But he only received 1% less support among women than Mitt Romney did. Why? Because right after he said he wanted to overturn Roe v Wade, his opponent declared she believes abortion should be legal up until the date of delivery, which not only terrifies me as someone who was born significantly pre-mature, but it also goes directly against the viability test set forth in Roe v Wade. You went too far on abortion and you lost.

Contrary to the liberal talking points coming out over the past few days, the vast majority of the country believes in equal rights for people of color. Instead of building off of this common ground, Black Lives Matter popped up and the nightly news was filled with images of African Americans rioting and burning black neighborhoods to the ground. Police Officers began getting gunned down in the streets and yet Democratic Congressmen and Senators promoted this organization from the floor of the House and Senate. Even today, after Donald Trump won the Presidency in a landslide, disgruntled African Americans are being caught on camera savagely beating White citizens, simply because they voted for Donald Trump. You went too far on the issue of race and you lost.

Many on the Left, throughout this election, said that Donald Trump’s message was devoid of specifics. If you were one of them, then you weren’t paying attention. Donald Trump’s campaign was completely issue-based. He won by a landslide because he isolated every single thing that the Left went too far on and promised to right the ship.
While you were salivating over the prospect of 11 million illegal aliens being given citizenship and added to the voter rolls, Donald Trump was meeting with families who had loved ones killed by illegal aliens that Barack Obama refused to deport. While you used the San Bernardino attack and the Orlando Massacre to push for more gun control, Donald Trump stood on stage and promised to keep the violent Muslim extremism that caused these attacks “the hell out of our country.” While you called Donald Trump the most anti-gay candidate ever, he was going off script at the Republican Convention, thanking delegates for applauding his plan to keep the LGBT community safe. He was standing on stage at a rally in Colorado holding up a gay pride flag.

You believed that Trump’s comments about illegal aliens and certain women would spell certain defeat for the maverick billionaire. Now that the dust has settled, exit polls show Donald Trump winning 1% more of the Latino vote and only getting 1% less of the women vote than Mitt Romney did. You were wrong.

By all means, continue to post about how you think Donald Trump’s victory was caused by prevalent racism or sexism or some other -ism. That is your right and I will defend it to the death. But Hillary Clinton didn’t lose this election because of an –ism. She lost this election because the American people rejected every single part of your platform and until you realize this, you are going to keep losing.

One line that was repeated throughout the campaign when the pundits thought Trump was melting down was a Napoleonic quote: Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. It would be easy to say this now as Clinton supporters blame everyone but themselves for this historic electoral result.

But at the end of the day, this proverb doesn’t fit because you’re not my enemy. You are my friend, my neighbor, my countryman. We voted to Make America Great Again for all Americans and I sincerely believe that you will be pleasantly surprised.


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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:28 pm Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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^^^^^ BINGO!!!!!!!


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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:43 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Oh, man. What a spectacle. I don't normally get into politics, but this election has been so fascinating to watch as a Canadian spectator, and you guys are cool, so here goes.

And also, I always feel the need to stress that I consider myself neither left nor right wing. There is no ideology I identify with... unless Christianity counts (and I sure as heck don't link that with any political ideology). In my opinion, the accumulation of power disproportionately on either side of the political divide is a very bad thing. Basically every ideology will ultimately lead to tyranny if not checked.

I'm largely in agreement with what Alan posted. The shift in culture in the past few years has felt like history in the making. When I was growing up, the right wing (namely Republicans) were the moral authoritarians who wanted to control our lives and rebelling against the right wing establishment was considered cool and punk rock. Things have completely shifted! The left wing has become the establishment. They had a stranglehold on the conversation leading up to the election, dominating the likes of social media and college campuses. The modern left wing ideology of political correctness, globalism etc. has become the new orthodoxy and deviation has become the new heresy. For the first time in my life it's considered cool and rebellious to be conservative. The moral authoritarianism and soft censorship is unreal and honestly scary. I don't think there has ever been a golden age for free speech - there's always someone who wants to make an exception to protect the current orthodoxy - but it is definitely under threat right now by political correctness.

There are important issues that need to be discussed and the recent climate has shut down any conversation by shaming and pathologizing anyone whose opinions didn't line up with the far left orthodoxy. And so those on the left and those on the right retreated into their echo chambers and believed their skewed versions of reality.

I honestly feared a Clinton presidency far more than a Trump presidency. I really do think that the Democrats needed to lose for the good of the republic. Their power needed to be broken. And that's ultimately what I think Trump's presidency will be: a righting of the ship and a balancing out of things. I certainly don't think it will lead to a new brand of fascism for Heaven's sake! The day after the election results came in, people were acting as if Hitler 2.0 had just come to power. I just couldn't believe it. Nearly everything about Trump was bloated by the media. I don't say this as a defence of Trump by any means and I rather dislike having to defend the guy from what I can only call slander. But at the end of the day he's an opportunistic businessman who needs a serious lesson in manners. He's a politician. *spits on the ground* But he isn't Hitler. Not even close.

Honestly, the most important thing right now, in my opinion, is to learn to talk with each other. Those on the right, stop fighting "communists". Those on the left, stop fighting "fascists". Stop demonizing people who hold different opinions then you. Stop pathologizing dissenting opinions by ending them in "-phobe". Talk to people. Open up your mind and try to truly understand why the opposition thinks the way they do. I'm not saying to abandon all of your political opinions, just understand where people who hold different views than you are coming from. They aren't aliens. They are human beings like you - with hopes, fears, and desires. And, hey, you might learn something from them.
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Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:29 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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bull****. I'm sure that Republican believe that Trump won because of the same things that they have been complaining about for 20 years, despite the fact that never made a difference before, and that the GOP actively resisted Trump until they had no other viable candidates.

You guys are so blinded by your party platform you actually believe this stuff don't you? Obama didn't take anyone's guns away. He did bomb a lot of people in the middle east, though. Funny how supposedly Democrats and Republicans are so different, except when it comes to foreign policy.

Obama is a right winger. Only in the minds of Republicans is he a socialist or even a liberal. Obama followed through on the Bush Bailout for the banks that destroyed the US economy. Republicans claimed to hate that, even though it was their idea. Well, they hated Obama for it, anyway. They also didn't hate George H.W. Bush when he did the same thing in the 80's after the Savings and Loans Scandal instituted by Reagan crashed the economy then too.

Now Trump has taken away the safety net that was put in place to stop that happening again. When the economy crashes once again do you think that Trump will bail out the banks again? Start your bets now.

I've pointed out the FACT that Obama has deported more people than GWB did. Trumps recent ICE raids were actually following through on plans that Obama had set up. But sure, go ahead and say that he loves Illegals.

TPP? What a joke! The average American doesn't know anything about TPP. They are not against TPP. Trump is not against TPP. NAFTA was put in by Bush and continued under Clinton. Clinton put in WTO and continued under GWB. Obama put in TPP which will continue under Trump. Gimme a break.

Trump is against abortion because that is what the GOP is. He was previously in support of it, along with gay marriage. In fact, he was previously a Democrat. He was friends with the Clintons and donated to them. Everyone knows this who pays attention to reality instead of their own fantasy land.

On that note, the Anti Federal Government Party is now cheering dictatorship for the President to override the Supreme Court and make their personal views the law of the land. Legit.

The real reason that Trump won is because of Hillary Clinton. Most Republicans did not support Trump, but they voted for him because they didn't want her. Now usually the reverse would be true, Democrats would vote for her because they didn't want Trump...but that didn't happen. They didn't want her either. They wanted Bernie Sanders. He would have crushed Trump, but the DNC didn't want him. They sabotaged him and in doing so split the party, and that is why they lost.

It's also pretty likely that Trump actually stole the election. He told Putin to hack the Democrats and he did. That's a fact. The only matter of debate is how much it influenced the election.

Less well known is that the GOP committed massive voter suppression. Potentially millions of people didn't get their votes counted. In Michigan, a key Trump victory, half a million votes were thrown out. Most people in Michigan are black and don't like Trump, so gee, why did he win? The guy who created the vote counting software used there and all over the country is a member of Trumps cabinet.

Trump has said that "3 million illegals voted". Of course he made that up, there's nothing to support that, but that is probably the actual discrepancy number of people who voted against him.

PS. Reep, if you read this far, are you not aware that several places in Trumps cabinet are held by actual neo nazis who had advocated for ethnic cleansing? His VP Pence also has neo nazi ties and he supports forced "gay conversion therapy".
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Spread out all around us is a petrified world, a world of Things, where we ourselves, our gestures, and even our feelings figure in as Things. Nothing can belong to us as truly our own in such a landscape of death. Under commodity occupation the most concrete truth about everything is the truth of it's infinite replaceablity.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:58 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Okay, I need to take something back. I said I was largely in agreement in with Alan's post, but re-reading it more slowly this time, I realize that a lot of issues in it I don't know enough about to even comment on. I was too hasty there. My bad.

My main issue and the thing I mostly talked about in my post was freedom of speech and the negative effect the modern left wing orthodoxy is having on it. I stand by that. Here's the thing. I don't like Trump. I said as much in my post. But the Democrats need to get their act together if they're going to beat him in the next election. The culture of thought policing is detrimental to a healthy society - if for no other reason than that bad ideas need to be answered. But if they are to be answered, they must be spoken. My post was not an endorsement of Trump, but my frustration with the modern left.

And, yes, I am aware that Trump and his cabinet are a bunch of clowns. I just don't think they are about to become the Fourth Reich. That said, could you send me some links about their neo-Nazi ties? The only one I recall was one of them being involved in a joke neo-Nazi group in school.
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Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:40 am Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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Reep, I don't really consider myself as a "Republican" or right-winger. Both my political and religious "views" (that's the only word I can think of right now), comes from my faith in Jesus, Yeshua, as my personal Lord and Savior and that the Bible (with some caveats...i.e. some versions) is, as it claims, that word of God. America's Founding Fathers wrote our founding documents (The Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights) based on Christian/Biblical principals.

I believe that both parties have been infiltrated by "progressives". In that I mean they are progressing further and further away from the rule of law, from the Constitution, from the faith that founded this country. They are progressing away from a representative republic to a more socialistic/communistic-based form of government. While the move started long ago, it really picked up steam under Woodrow Wilson. While a few presidents attempted to "turn the train around" (like Reagan), the rest (yes, including the Bush's) took us further down the progressive road...some more than others. Hillary would have just continued and even sped up the train. So, I don't trust either party. If I had to pick a "party" it would be the Constitution Party, but in today's cultural and political climate, I really don't think that the CP will be able to do enough to keep this country's foundation intact.

However, people really shouldn't look to Trump to be the savior of this country. There is only one Savior...and it's not Trump. While Trump is trying to keep is campaign promises (really unheard of in modern day politics), it's not going to be enough to save America. It will only come when God's people, who are called by His name (i.e. Christians) will humble themselves before the Lord and call out to him. Then, will God heal this land. Unfortunately, the "church", as the Bible says it will in the "end times" is becoming more and more apostate to the point where the rapture may not be as devastating as was once thought. Because I believe John Adams was right when he said: "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Still...socialism, communism, fascism, and islam are all antithetical to the Constitution...to the foundation of this country. And once a foundation is destroyed, the whole thing comes crashing down. If you take the time to see what is going on in this country, you can see that there are people (people within our government, within our education system, within the news media, and within the entertainment industry) that are attempting to undermine and destroy the foundation of this country...to essentially destroy it. Even Obama, the first time he was elected said that his goal was to fundamentally transform this country, but noone wanted to listen or to take him at his word.

I think one of the best things that Trump can do for this country is to appoint Constitutional originallists judges. Judges that hold that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are the foundational rule of law to this country and make their rulings based on that fact...to stop the tide of judicial activism (i.e. legislating from the bench) to forward their liberal agenda.

I don't believe in "gay rights", or "black lives matter", or any other such group seeking special rights based on certain characteristics. I believe in equal rights as given by our Creator to all. No one should have special rights.

Above I made the comment that islam is antithetical to our Constitution. Yes, through the Bill of Rights we have freedom of religion, but what about when that religion's beliefs and practices go against the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? What about when that religion states that its goal is the surplant the governing laws of a country (i.e. the Constitution) with Sharia law? Is that not sedition? And, if a religion believes that if anyone does not convert to that religion that adherents to that religion should kill the non-convert (i.e. infildel)? Is that a religion that will live in peace with other religions within a country? Look at Europe. Look at the history of primarily islamic countries, the ones that were previously Christian countries.

DPW, I'll just say that it sounds like you are well educated and informed by the main stream media.


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