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Jedi Morality
 PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:59 am Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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I've had a little thought that's been bothering me for a while.

The Jedi claim they are fighting the Clone Wars to keep the peace and defeat the Sith. But I get the feeling that if Dooku (or any other Sith) helped them defend the Republic, they would turn a blind eye to his Sithiness. Which makes me think the Jedi are fighting for power, not the greater good. I know they use their power for good, but the books that I have read have shown the other side of the Jedi. I know it's a big Galaxy and they can't keep an eye on everyone (that would be oppressive) but even stuff like the Crimson Corridor, it's right under their noses and they don't do a thing. And then there's the cortosis mines and stuff.

Just wanted to say it, if you want to share your thoughts and stuff that'd be great. I don't really know whether this is about the Jedi or the Republic, but ultimately they're the same thing. The Jedi can have great influence on the Senate.
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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:30 am Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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Hmmm interesting questions. I always thought the Jedi lived to serve the republic but are not a part of the republic. They are guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy and serve the chancellor.

There is a touch of arrogance about them and to be honest if the Jedi werent protecting anybody they would be useless. Mace Windu was a good character but a touch arrogant and standoffish.

Who made them guardians? Did they just take it on themselves to police the galaxy.? Did they also believe they were above non force users as if they were superior?. If I lived in the SW galaxy I dont think id like the Jedi. I think they suit themselves all the while trying to make it look like its for the greater good. They are a bit hypocritical. I think they like power too.

The CW and indeed the prequels for me didnt really make me a fan of them. There are some good characters within the order but for me the Sith just simply have a different POV.
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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:44 am Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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I know what you mean. I just think "Who elected them?" because they seem to have just taken over and said "We're so great so we'll hover over everything you do, as long as it suits us". Maybe they're only in power to stop the Sith being in power. People say the Sith are an oppressive regime, but so are the Jedi, just not as directly and openly.

It's a head scratcher.
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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:15 am Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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DannikJerriko wrote:
I know what you mean. I just think "Who elected them?" because they seem to have just taken over and said "We're so great so we'll hover over everything you do, as long as it suits us". Maybe they're only in power to stop the Sith being in power. People say the Sith are an oppressive regime, but so are the Jedi, just not as directly and openly.

It's a head scratcher.


Big time. Theres a reason the jedi fell in the last days of TOR and on other occasions in SW history. In much the same way the Sith too fell. The Jedi were blind to what was going on right underneath their noses. I know the dark side clouds everything but still.... Sidious played them all. If you were Sidious you would be laughing at their failure.
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 PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:48 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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The Jedi are an odd bunch. The structure of their philosophical order, and their actions does open them to criticism. Theoretically the Sith are just an opposing philosophical order, and shouldn't necessarily be evil, yet in-universe, that's what we're given. The Sith are always portrayed as evil and never have a chance at being anything but evil.

I understand the need and desire to have the Jedi be the good guys and the Sith be the bad guys, but it's always nice to see some exceptions to the rule. And we do see exceptions. Jorus C'baoth was an arrogant Jedi, I can't recall the details, but I seem to remember him being a good example of a bad Jedi.
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 PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:36 pm Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
I understand the need and desire to have the Jedi be the good guys and the Sith be the bad guys, but it's always nice to see some exceptions to the rule. And we do see exceptions. Jorus C'baoth was an arrogant Jedi, I can't recall the details, but I seem to remember him being a good example of a bad Jedi.


There's Pong Krell.
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:10 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Hmm, does Krell count as a bad Jedi or a dark sider? He did bad things, but did he ever actually use the dark side? I can't remember if he did any Force lightning. If he did, the Jedi would just write him off as another victim to the dark side.
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:13 am Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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The Jedi are hypocrites. Thats why I am afilliated with the Sith

All hail Darth Revan Lord Of The Sith Laughing
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:19 am Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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Palpatine uses Force Lightning: "EVIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL"

Plo Koon uses Electric Judgement: "Ah, yes now, what's that over there?"

hashtagfacepalm
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The best techniques are passed on by the survivors.


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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:02 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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One of the problems is that there's a vast range of authors, many of whom have injected differing viewpoints on the Jedi into the Expanded Universe.

The Jedi of the prequel films are flawed. And they are fairly hypocritical, at least if you take into account Matt Stover's novelization where Yoda and Obi-Wan discuss how they would accept one another's deaths if it would end the war a day earlier.

Yet in Attack of the Clones, I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Jedi kind of started the war. And Yoda says to Mace that capturing or killing Dooku would prevent the war, yet he let's Dooku escape to save Obi-Wan and Anakin.


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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:32 am Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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Im also beginning to realise that the Jedi are not the same across the EU. If you look at the OR novels especially Revan which Im currently reading lord Scourge(great character) descsribes the Jedi early in the book as seeking "revenge" on the sith after the Great Hyperspace Wars. Not something I would associate the Jedi as being. Lucas himself changed the name of the third film of the OT from Revenge to Return as revenge wasnt the Jedi way.

Yet from a certain point of view the Jedis relentless pursuit of the sith in the OR Revan is seeking revenge. If the Sith did the same you wouldnt bat an eyelid yet the Jedi do it too. Yes they hide behind all these noble reasons why yet its just making excuses to justify it. The Jedi are not the do gooders the OT and early EU books depicted them as.
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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:36 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Well on one hand, the old order Jedi had an exterminate on site policy for Sith. Absolute zero tolerance. On the other hand, all Sith that we've seen are evil. You can't quite fault them for that. Now if we ever see some Sith that aren't evil, that would make their zero tolerance policy look bad.
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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:58 am Reply with quote  
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  Hogy
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^^^Well there is always Darth Vectivus.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:37 pm Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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Just realised something; the Jedi Order is like the Church in Middle Ages England; a group of individuals, believed to be different from the other people assume political power and influence unto themselves, end up contradicting their base values, windup in command of an Army, they glorify themselves, beat down any who oppose them (reacting with violence), and manipulate the people to remain in power.

How did I not notice that?
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The best techniques are passed on by the survivors.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:42 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I don't think that analogy is entirely apt.

As for Darth Vectivus, I think any information we have about him is smoke that Lumiya was blowing up Jacen's behind.

The One Sith found his holocron worthless.


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