Abortion

@Cerrinea: I'm going to have to agree with Autobon. I've discussed murder, homosexuality, capital punishment, child beauty pageants etc. Now I've never been murdered (obviously Wink

), I haven't had anyone close to me murdered, I've never had to face the death penalty, been homosexual, or been in a beauty pageant ( Razz

), but I still discuss them. I want to be as gracious as possible here and I hope that I don't come across as a jerk. If this topic is stressful for you, I completely understand, and no one is forcing you to visit this thread, but I think we should be allowed to continue. However, if you really want us to stop, I'll respect that and won't say another word on the subject.
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Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Master Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 1410

That's fine, Reep, go ahead and discuss. I have no problem with something that's an actual discussion.
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Roqoo Depot co-founder.

Auto: You've already stated that you think its irrelevant to the discussion, so why keep talking about it? Just to prove that you can challenge me? That seems pointless and insensitive.

I didn't say you can't talk about things you haven't experienced, or can't know anything about them. But can you understand why someone who has experienced those things wouldn't like being told how they should feel about it by someone who hasn't?

To be clear I'm not making a presumption about what you or anyone has experienced on here. I don't think we should talk about it because I don't think it's relevant or has been adequately addressed. Frankly, I don't really want to talk about it and don't like hearing about it.

Yeah, it's interesting. I can see why many people wouldn't equate thinking with doing, because we're not hurting anyone with mere thoughts. It's more to do with our state of mind than actual effects. For example, I was surprised when I found out that, according to Christianity, the ultimate vice was pride. What harm does it do others? It's more that it gives us the ultimate anti-God attitude. And, of course, actions often follow thoughts given the right circumstances. If those criminals were in the same room with me during those thoughts, who knows? I shudder to think.

Life, I have a question for. You said you consider an unborn baby a foetus and, therefore, not 'alive' (which, by the way, I do to) but how do you justify ending a bay's chance at life being different than ending a baby's life? What makes it more acceptable?
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Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

(My answer will have to be very truncated because my computer crashed when I was halfway through answering the last time Razz

)

To answer I need to elaborate on when I define a phoetus being human. The foetus grows its brain and has its first heartbeats at 12 to 24 weeks. Beyond that, it is alive, and should be afforded all the rights of a human - but before that it is just a collection of cells, and thus not 'alive', and as such I believe that it's up to the mother to choose whether or not she wants that lump of cells to become a human, or to have an abortion, to terminate it. I believe in the mother's right to choose that. To give that right, or to not.

I hope that answers your question (probably not, since I'm not entirely happy with it myself, but it's the best I can do in time afforded me. If not, let me know, and I'll have another try on Monday.).
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I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it. These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

Master Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 1410

Actually, a fetus does not have a gender until about 12 weeks gestation.

and zygote, embryo and fetus are medical terms used to differentiate gestational progress.

You can't call a zygote a fetus because a zygote is simply a fertilized egg. An embryo cannot be called a fetus because at 10 and 12 weeks gestation cell differentiation happens and organogenesis occurs. This is when the transition from embryo to fetus is made.

Medically speaking, Life is right. While the potential for a human being exists, the fetus is technically not yet a human being.
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Roqoo Depot co-founder.

Master Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 4400 Location: Korriban

I've read over this and I remembered why I stopped coming here. Its a subject that men can disagree on but ultimately have zero right to comment on. I don't believe its right, but its a woman's choice. Would I fight a late-term abortion? Absolutely, but early-term I wouldn't fight, I'd simply disagree with.

@Life: Can we just call "agreeing to disagree" by that now? "Pulling a Caedus" has a nice ring to it, and its kind of a positive statement.
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Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

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