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Changes to all the Films
 PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:28 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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After reading this article I just thought this is pretty topical, especially given the recent Blu-Ray changes as well as the 3D rereleases which will probably feature Vader yelling "Nooooo" as he chucks old Palps down the reactor core.

http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2011/09/george-lucass-1988-speech-about-preservi.php

And discuss.
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:56 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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I never particularly view snark as valid critique.
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:38 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Neither do I but it brings to light the fact that he was one of the biggest critics of colorization of films and indeed any changes once released. Wasn't going for the snarky side of it, more promoting the hypocrisy.
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:18 am Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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He was against people other than the creators changing films. That's his thing; he wants complete control over a film with no studio interference.

A studio colorizing a film fifty years later is the same thing.

I don't really understand the outrage over his changes. He didn't steal the VHS tapes from people with the original cuts of the films on them. And it's his right to decide whether to sell the original cuts in new formats.

That's not to say that I agree with the changes, though when the Special Editions came out when I was 11 and 12 years old, I liked those. But people take it way too personally -- like I do with LOTF.


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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:36 am Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Cerrinea wrote:
I never particularly view snark as valid critique.


The article is not particularly snarky. That's just a good argument too brush of any critique that made on the creator, right?

This article is just another example of how GL's mind works IMO. I don't want to go into any discussion about this, because to many people (George Lucas being one of them) view Lucas as a God who has all the rights and is allways right, who's vision of things is always best.
The article is just an example of GL's hypocrisy IMO.
To me GL is a businessman first and foremost and and his every action confirms this. To be honest, I even believe that SW has only become as big as it is because GL does have the talent to get the right people to do the right job. So ultimately the group of people GL brought together to make the films are the ones that made it what it was to me.
The love GL claims to have for the Saga seems to me to be mostly limited to the amount of money he can keep making of it. Hence the changes to the films as an excuse to keep re-releasing them as if they where something new.
GL knows he'll never have a hit like SW again and will just suck it dry for every penny it will generate. Of course he has the right, but does that make it a good thing? Not to me.
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:03 am Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Lord Ree'dius wrote:
GL knows he'll never have a hit like SW again and will just suck it dry for every penny it will generate.


He has Indiana Jones.

And I just looked at the wikipedia page for Young Indiana Jones, and I saw this:

"Clint Eastwood was approached to play the elder brother of Indiana Jones, but he turned it down despite a $10 million offer."

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:04 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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@ Lord Ree'dius: please point out where GL is being a hypocrite because I don't see any hypocrisy in his statement.
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:14 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Cerrinea wrote:
@ Lord Ree'dius: please point out where GL is being a hypocrite because I don't see any hypocrisy in his statement.


I think I understand part of where he's coming from. Lucas seemed to only be in favor of preservation unless it could garner him more money. Just looking at his directing skills and his latest offerings of dialogue we can see that he's more of a businessman than anything else. And hence the reason its seen as hypocrisy: His statements always count unless he changes his mind because it can make him more money.
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:17 pm Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Caedus_16 wrote:
Cerrinea wrote:
@ Lord Ree'dius: please point out where GL is being a hypocrite because I don't see any hypocrisy in his statement.


I think I understand part of where he's coming from. Lucas seemed to only be in favor of preservation unless it could garner him more money. Just looking at his directing skills and his latest offerings of dialogue we can see that he's more of a businessman than anything else. And hence the reason its seen as hypocrisy: His statements always count unless he changes his mind because it can make him more money.


Thank you so much, my point exactly. Smile
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:48 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Except it's not hypocritical. He's opposed to studios altering films after the director is finished. See: Blade Runner. That's what colorizing black and white films is.

That has absolutely nothing in common with him altering his own films, and in fact is pretty consistent when you consider that Star Wars: Episode IV is his most heavily edited film, and is also the only film that he didn't personally finance and thus didn't have full control over.

Plus, if he's such a businessman, I think he'd not alter the films since that's not popular among the fanboys, so it'd stand to reason that he'd make more money by not altering them.

But I'm sure you know George Lucas better than me, so who am I to argue?


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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:02 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Quote:
I think I understand part of where he's coming from. Lucas seemed to only be in favor of preservation unless it could garner him more money. Just looking at his directing skills and his latest offerings of dialogue we can see that he's more of a businessman than anything else. And hence the reason its seen as hypocrisy: His statements always count unless he changes his mind because it can make him more money.


Yes, I've heard this circular and illogical reasoning for a few decades now. That it discards the facts and ignores GL's statements that contradict it is why I don't get sucked into this kind of argument anymore.
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:37 pm Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Well, I'm sorry. It's just the way I see things and my conclusions from these "facts"..
And of course I don't know GL better than any of you, but that works the other way around also.
It just feels like GL gets placed on some kind of moral pedestal by some while his actions speak otherwise.

Quote:
Plus, if he's such a businessman, I think he'd not alter the films since that's not popular among the fanboys, so it'd stand to reason that he'd make more money by not altering them.

I think he counts on the fact that the completists fanboys will want to add this to their collection if they are oppossed to the chances or not. Why else where things added and old mistakes left in if it was all about the quality?

Now please don't get me wrong, because I don't think GL is a bad person or anything, but to me he is a businessman first and an artist second and those two just have a different view on things.
So what is so different in a studio wanting to update an older movie to make it more accessible to todays audience? Is there a difference between that and what GL claims to be doing to SW? Why? Because the studio didn't "make" the movie (like making a movie is a one man job to begin with) or write the script? It was their money the movie was made with to begin with (in most cases, anyway). They have the right to do it because they own the rights to a movie and can thus do with it as they see fit. It's not like they are destroying the original, right? The're just making a better version in their opinion, like GL does in his. If one is so wrong, how can the other be totally right?
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:43 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Lord Ree'dius wrote:
I think he counts on the fact that the completists fanboys will want to add this to their collection if they are oppossed to the chances or not. Why else where things added and old mistakes left in if it was all about the quality?


Funny thing, I used to be one of those. But I drew the line when he added the dialogue for Vader in RotJ. That upset me so bad. I refuse to buy the BluRays. So...for someone with 7 versions of ANH on DVD, VHS, and even Beta, that's fairly extreme. He has finally drawn a line I will not cross. Neutral
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:56 pm Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:
But I drew the line when he added the dialogue for Vader in RotJ. That upset me so bad
That IS the worst change yet. And I'm also sticking with the originals and the special editions, those are good enough for me. Although I did get rid of all my VHS a few years ago, because they where just taking up space after I bought my first DVD-player. Smile
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:56 pm Reply with quote  
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Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:
Funny thing, I used to be one of those. But I drew the line when he added the dialogue for Vader in RotJ. That upset me so bad. I refuse to buy the BluRays. So...for someone with 7 versions of ANH on DVD, VHS, and even Beta, that's fairly extreme. He has finally drawn a line I will not cross. Neutral


The Vader thing doesn't ruin the film. I think it's condescending to the audience and if given the choice, would not have it rather than have it. I think it's worth buying blu-ray though if you have an HDTV.

I think my least favorite changes are replacing Jason Wingreen with Temuera Morrison for Boba Fett and replacing Vader's line "Bring my shuttle!" with "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival!" The delivery and emotional implications of the original line are vastly superior.

For a man that's a film editor first and foremost, I think Lucas has lost any sense of pacing or lost a sense of the importance of pacing, because I don't think it's really necessary to break the pacing of the Cloud City escape just to establish how Vader was on the Executor. I think it's another matter of condescension to the audience, perhaps inadvertent, because he has lost any sense of subtlety. So to demonstrate that Darth Vader took a shuttle to his Star Destroyer, he's going to eliminate this one line that's expertly delivered by James Earl Jones and tells a lot about what's going on in Vader's head, and he's going to mess with the pacing of the film.

One theory I read is that Lucas views the films as starship porn. Someone made a drinking game out of every time a starship in Revenge of the Sith either lands or takes off, and it is ridiculous how much screen time is devoted to this. Take note that another change to The Empire Strikes Back was that he actually chose to show the Millennium Falcon land on the landing platform at Cloud City, whereas in the original cut it simply show the Falcon flying toward Cloud City and cut to Han et al. on the landing platform.


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