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Hunger Games (Spoilers)
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Hunger Games (Spoilers)
 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:59 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Feel free to discuss all three books and the film once it comes out. Be forewarned, spoilers are fair game here.

So continuing the brief discussion in the what else are you reading thread...Caedus said he didn't like Book 1 or 3, but liked 2. Reep said Book 3 was his favorite.

My problem with the series was two fold. One: Katniss. The author seems to have deliberately made Katniss an unlikable character. She's not just flawed, but written in a way that's sure to get on the reader's nerves. Plus the entire story is told from her first person perspective, thus your at her mercy. And she's a selfish, cowardly, stupid character. The author actually lists her bad characteristics for the reader to see.

My second gripe is how characters are killed for no purpose.
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:01 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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I hereby call out one Reepicheep. I need to know how he arrived at the opinion that Mockingjay was the best of the trilogy.
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:07 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Seconded. Mockingjay was the one I despised.
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:50 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I liked Mockingjay for the way it portrayed war. I've never seen war dealt with so realistically in a non-adult novel. The deaths were 'pointless', but that was the point. Young men and women with their entire lives ahead of them are killed during war all the time. Cinna and Finnick are characters you can't kill, you just can't, yet here we are.

I also loved how the District 13 rebellion turned out. I've been getting rather tired of rebellion stories where the good guys overthrow the bad guys, set up a democracy (portraying it as Paradise) and everyone lives happily ever after. Corruption will still happen. It doesn't matter if it's President Snow or We The People (who are apparently flawless) who are in charge. There's this brilliantly eerie line at the end by Plutarch saying that this time humanity may have finally evolved past the endless cycle of tyranny and rebellion. Shortly after he mentions a new reality show (sounds like American Idol) he's producing and you get the feeling the cycle is going to start all over. Evolution of the human race indeed! I just found it all very refreshing.

I think this book is really connecting with the preteen-early teen crowd because of the loss of innocence they're going through. They're beginning to see the world through a different lens. If I had read these 4-5 years ago, I probably would have enjoyed them even more. I still keenly remember those days and I never truly get used to living in a world that works like it does.

I'm still mentally working through Prim's death, but I think it's less throw-away than people give it credit for. At the beginning of the series Katniss said Prim was the only person she really loved. At the end of Mockingjay, that's no longer the case.
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:53 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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I'm sort of with Skuls here. My problem with Mockingjay wasn't so much the plot, but that I was stuck with the first-person narrative of a character I loathed. I was indifferent to Katniss during the first two books, but Mockingjay made me really despise her.

It's very possible I'll like the movie much better, if they get that far, especially if Jennifer Lawrence is able to make Katniss less....self absorbed.
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:57 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Oh yeah, I forgot to comment on that. Again, I liked Katniss for the reasons you guys don't like her. I like her because she's unlikeable. It just worked for me (and I'm clearly not alone btw Wink ).
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:04 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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See, like I said, I was ok with Katniss during the first two books. She wasn't my favorite, but I didn't have a major problem with her.

My breaking point came
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:34 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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^Exactly! Katniss is made into this absolutely detestable character who is so self absorbed and "me me me." If feels like she would yell at a cripple going through a door in front of her if they were going too slow. She gives up on Peeta without even trying to help him. She makes zero effort to help him, and yet she acknowledges to herself that if the roles were reverse, Peeta would go to great lengths to help her.

What kind of person sees a flaw in themself like that, but doesn't do anything about it? And how can an author expect readers to like a character like that? To enjoy a story told through that character's eyes?

Honestly, I wish Katniss would have been killed. That would have been a satisfying ending. Peeta should have bashed her brains after one of her snide comments. That should have been the last page of the book. No happy ending. Reap what you sow.

As for the story and the portrayal of the war and such, I had no problem with that. I think Prim's death could have been done a lot better though. It felt like the author just tossed it in. Same with Finnick. While Prim felt more like an untouchable character, there were only two untouchable characters: Peeta and Katniss. And they don't die. Who dies? They likable side characters. Heck, they didn't even kill Gale.

And here's another gripe: what kind of 17 year old girl has zero hormones? That felt completely, unbelievably wrong. I can understand her not wanting to have kids, but that doesn't magically undo your hormones. She was acting like some little nine year old flirting around in her kissing stage.


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"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood


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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:25 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I, sir, am offended. Wink
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:37 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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Sorry, Reep, we didn't mean to gang up on you or anything. Wink Just no love for Katniss 'round these parts. I'm very much hoping the movies will change that for me.
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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Skuldren, you have described my two problems with these books perfectly. They are major page-turners that you can't put down - but it's almost like when you see a car wreck and have to slow down to look.

Katniss is extremely difficult to like. I felt sorry for her often, but I never liked her. I never cheered for her. One word can describe Katniss: jerk. And when your main character and hero is a jerk, how can you root for them? I guess the formula is to have so many horrific things happen to them that you have to, at the very least, pity them. People who dislike the idea of "Team Peeta" or "Team Gale" say we should all be on Team Katniss. Why? Why should we like this girl at all? I can't even see how we can relate to her! Her feelings are so intensely perverse, how in the world can the reader feel a connection to her?

The second part is the death. When so many people die, how can you enjoy the book. When you are constantly reading the extremely depressing thoughts of Katniss, how can you enjoy it?

The books are hard to put down. The suspense works. I'll give it that. One of my best friends is a major fan, and for her sake, I don't really say anything negative. But I just don't understand it. I can see why people would like the books - but love them? Cherish them? The main character is a horrible person and nothing good ever happens. Everything is depressing.


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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:10 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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The more I think about it, the more ok I actually am with the deaths. In war, people don't survive just because you like them. They don't even always die in a burst of glory. They just die. I understand that. I'm ok with that. What bugged me was when characters such as Finnick bit the dust, Katniss barely acknowledged it other than, "Oh, whoops, he's dead, too bad,"

....this is becoming the "Dislike Katniss" thread. Confused
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:12 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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@Padme: Maybe it is indeed becoming that thread, but to be honest there is tons not to like about her. She's impractical, she's rude, she's selfish, and she acts out of character for both her age and the reality she lives in. She's a misfire of a character for this kind of story.
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:22 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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From the trailers, I actually already like her better in the movies than I did in the books. We'll see if that holds up.
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All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause.



Those without swords can still die upon them

The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.


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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:17 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Queen Padmè Skywalker wrote:
The more I think about it, the more ok I actually am with the deaths. In war, people don't survive just because you like them. They don't even always die in a burst of glory. They just die. I understand that. I'm ok with that. What bugged me was when characters such as Finnick bit the dust, Katniss barely acknowledged it other than, "Oh, whoops, he's dead, too bad,"


I'll agree with this.

I still like Katniss though.
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Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.


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