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LotF vs. FotJ
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Which is better?
Legacy of the Force
25%
 25%  [ 3 ]
Fate of the Jedi
75%
 75%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 12

LotF vs. FotJ
 PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:58 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Now that Fate of the Jedi has wrapped up, it's time to compare. "Legacy of the Force" and "Fate of the Jedi" were both nine-book series placed in roughly the same time with roughly the same characters, yet they were quite different from each other.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that "Legacy of the Force" was better. At least, I enjoyed it more. One thing to say immediately is that I am, and always will be, biased in LotF's favour. These books were my intro to the EU, so (shocking as it may seem) they will always hold a special place in my heart.

However, that is not the only reason I enjoyed LotF more. LotF had focus. From book one, we saw Jacen slowly slip to the dark side and once he was there, the remainder of the books focused on stopping his reign of terror. FotJ was all over the place. Plot threads would stop and start and plot developments would turn up at odd times. The result was a series that often felt slow or rushed. When Outcast was written, I firmly believe that the writing team had no idea where they wanted the series to go and, aside from a vague outline, made it up as they went along. In fact I read in an interview that at least a few significant plot points were inserted after a meeting. I'm not sure if such a system could work, but I don't think it did here.

I counted down the days for each LotF book, but for FotJ I was a lot more lax. The books could come out when they came out. Part of this was a general change in attitude as I found myself getting more interested in stories that weren't part of the "main story", but I think much of it come from the fact that I didn't find the story that engaging. When I finished a book, it didn't have me excited for reading another one.

I don't want to blast FotJ too much, because overall I did enjoy it. However, this was largely due to good characters and good authors. They made the difference.

Admittedly, both series ended badly. In Invincible the logic of Jaina being sent to take out Darth Caedus was terrible. Jaina was not the most powerful Jedi in the Order and she has HUGE emotional ties to Jacen. It was completely bone-headed to send her kill him. The Mandalorians and especially Fett were treated by Denning as total murglaks. I like Mandos, so this irked me, but it was also inconsistent with th tone of the previous books. The Mandos earned Jaina's grudging respect as she, and we the readers, began to see a more human side of them. I get the sense there was some author politics behind this. The idea of Jacen turning dark and being killed didn't strike me as terrible when I first read it (as I wasn't familiar with his pre-LotF character), but I've since seen how wrong this was for his character. It also ended way too abruptly.

Apocalypse on the other hand had a snooze-fest (for me) opening half with a seriously wonky second half. The mythology of Star Wars seems irreconcilable at the moment, barring a major retcon. The idea of "bringing balance to the Force" has apparently radically changed from the impression that the films give. I don't understand what the Ones are or why we need them if we can just kill them without cataclysmic effects. Anakin being the "Chosen One" now means nothing as far as I can see. Vestara's arc was abruptly ended. After all that build up, she just leaves. There is no epic conflict with Ben, she just decides that she better leave. I guess, she didn't love Ben after all.

In the end, I'm just happy the EPICNESS is going to be toned down in the foreseeable future.
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Last edited by Reepicheep on Sat May 05, 2012 11:58 am; edited 2 times in total


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 PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:59 am Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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I don't have time to really get into it at the moment, sadly, but I'm going with Fate. Legacy was promising at the beginning and admittedly, had more focus, but the end completely and utterly ruined any fond feelings I had for it.
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 PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 12:46 pm Reply with quote  
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  GrandMaster
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I never really liked the Mandalorians, so Fate of the Jedi was a much better series for me.
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 PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:49 pm Reply with quote  
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  VileZero
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I voted for LotF.

I'm a huge Traviss fan, and I loved the Mandalorian parts. I also thought that the villains (Jacen and Alema - and Lumiya, to a lesser degree) were more fun to read about than the enigmatic Abeloth and the annoying Daala. There are elements of FotJ that I enjoyed more (such as Ben's character, Vestara and Tahiri having some great roles), but FotJ's plot didn't really kick into gear until the last two books. At least with LotF, something major was happening in every book.

Then again, both series have a lot of issues and I don't really overall care for either one of them a whole lot. But I think that LotF better embraced the themes and ideas behind STAR WARS than FotJ did. I hated that Mara died, but I thought that Traviss's depiction of the death was incredibly powerful. I got teary eyed reading when Luke felt the death in the Force. It was just a really powerful moment.


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 PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:09 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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I'm torn here so I'll tackle a point by point comparison, and maybe I'll get a better indicator.

Overall: I liked FOTJ better, but can't say why.

On going story: I felt like nothing was really happening most of the time in both series.

Mythology: FOTJ was more expansive for SW both adding to and referencing past.

Characterization: Equal.

Cohesion: FOTJ seemed to have a better cohesion to the books, while LOTF you got a distinct sense of what author was doing what.

Stand Out books: Revelation in LOTF was one of the better SW books to me and the best of that series. Betrayal was also a really good book. For FOTJ Abyss was the best, none of the other ones really stood out.

Villian: Abeloth was a better villain than Cadeus.

Starter: Betrayal was a much better series start than Outcast which was one of the weakest.

Ending: Haven't finished FOTJ so I can't say.

Total:
LOTF 4 points
FOTJ 6 points


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 PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 6:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Fate of the Jedi by far.

While Fett worked in Bloodlines, Traviss use of him and the Mandalorians in Sacrifice and Revelation just did not fit the larger story. That is especially true in Sacrifice where they seemed completely separate from the rest of the plot other then her having a few characters reference them for no apparent reason and then be relieved they were not taking part in the war as a whole. Having Jania go train with them also felt wrong since before then Fett was never considered the top authority in killing Jedi. Her books also had a completely different tone then the other six, which made the flow from going from one book to the next feel off. Fett's story would have been far better off being it's own stand alone novel rather then being jammed into this one.

They also seemed to have learn a lot from Legacy when doing Fate of the Jedi. It just seemed that there was better communications between authors. A good example is that in Betrayal, the biggest thing the Corellians were pissed about was the GA taking over one of their planets. But in Bloodlines, it was that they attacked Center Point without any mention of the temporary occupation.

And while I'm fine in theory with Jacen turning Sith, the execution of it was very badly handled. They mishandled that on almost every step.


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 PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:37 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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VileZero wrote:
I also thought that the villains (Jacen and Alema - and Lumiya, to a lesser degree) were more fun to read about than the enigmatic Abeloth and the annoying Daala.

When I first read LotF, I only had a vague knowledge of the NJO, so I didn't have any gripes with Jacen turning to the dark side at all. I actually thoroughly enjoyed Darth Caedus's story (I used to pronounce it Cay-Dus back than. Ah, memories Wink ).


Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Mythology: FOTJ was more expansive for SW both adding to and referencing past.

This is a point in FotJ's favour for sure.

Werehunter wrote:
Having Jania go train with them also felt wrong since before then Fett was never considered the top authority in killing Jedi.

Who would you rather she went to?
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 PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:50 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Reepicheep wrote:
Werehunter wrote:
uot;]Having Jania go train with them also felt wrong since before then Fett was never considered the top authority in killing Jedi.

Who would you rather she went to?


If it was just to get additional combat training, maybe the Noghri. They've long been shown to be great warriors and have none of the bad blood towards the Jedi or the Solo family in general.

Fett is a great bounty hunter and fighter, but considering the history between him and her family having her go to him for training was just wrong to me. To me it felt more of a way to include Fett in the larger story and, more importantly, have Traviss' version of Mandalorians validated by a Solo.

That's not to say there weren't some good scenes between Jania and some of the Mandalorians. But the whole idea rubbed me the wrong way right from the start.


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 PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 11:37 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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That's interesting WH, since I said I had the exact opposite reaction. I loved the interaction between Fett and Jaina. One minute you'd get warmed up to Fett and then he'd drop a line about "haha. I'm destroying your family" and you'd be like ooh coold blooded!

I think that it's the strongest both of their characters have been, or for Jaina at least since then; with the exception of the one scene in FOTJ where she comforts Vestara- which almost made up for Invinicble to me.


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 PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:16 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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I like FOTJ way better than LOTF. First off, I was never big Jacen fan, so a lot of the appeal of LOTF was lost on me. Secondly, Fett was shoehorned in, and there was way too much focus on Jacen and not enough on what was going on in the bigger picture, like say the Confederation and the Civil War. There series would have had a better balance if it would have cover the other events more. Lastly, the final book was told very differently from the others, and it added to the whole disjointedness of the series.

Okay, one more thing, they killed Mara.

FOTJ, on the other hand, in my opinion, had a lot better focus. There was a lot of focus on the larger picture, a lot of minor characters received page time, and it was a lot of fun overall. I don't recall there being a lot of fun in LOTF. Just seemed like it was a darker series.
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 PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:56 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Maybe this isn't the place for this, but a lot of people are saying that they didn't like the death of Mara Jade. I don't get this.

Mara's death was really the critical thing that pushed Jacen over completely to the Dark Side. From that viewpoint it is the the significant event of the whole LOTF series. Besides Jacen, It also effected the character development of Luke and Ben continuing into the FOTJ series. It even effected the future of Mara when we saw her reflections on the last moments of her life and the upcoming events.

So what is the problem here? If it's because we like a character and so they should be untouchable, that's not what Star Wars has become. It started back in NJO with the death of Chewie- there is going to be real loss and real peril that has lasting implications. If you don't like that, go back and point the blame there...yet we all seem to have accepted that until Mara's death.

It may have been a calculated decision "We need a major character death to up the ante" and in that way it is arbitrary, but I don't think you can argue that it was a throw away gimmick that did not add to the story.


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 PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:29 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Yeah, for all my complaints about Legacy of the Force Mara's death was not one. Due to the very nature of the Star Wars novels, just because she died in these books does not mean we can't see more stories with her. They'll just have to be set before these book. I'm still hoping for a Jade/Mirax story set before the Hand of Thrawn books.


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 PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:37 am Reply with quote  
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Maybe this isn't the place for this, but a lot of people are saying that they didn't like the death of Mara Jade. I don't get this.

Mara's death was really the critical thing that pushed Jacen over completely to the Dark Side. From that viewpoint it is the the significant event of the whole LOTF series. Besides Jacen, It also effected the character development of Luke and Ben continuing into the FOTJ series. It even effected the future of Mara when we saw her reflections on the last moments of her life and the upcoming events.

So what is the problem here? If it's because we like a character and so they should be untouchable, that's not what Star Wars has become. It started back in NJO with the death of Chewie- there is going to be real loss and real peril that has lasting implications. If you don't like that, go back and point the blame there...yet we all seem to have accepted that until Mara's death.

It may have been a calculated decision "We need a major character death to up the ante" and in that way it is arbitrary, but I don't think you can argue that it was a throw away gimmick that did not add to the story.


That's not the reason why most people dislike her death, I think. From what I gather, the main problem was the way she died - in the first by falling for a simple trick, and then by poison. Personally, I'm sort of okay with the trick, because Ben was on her mind, it was a tangible fear of hers, and I think that could have affected her enough for her to pause when Jacen made that illusion. But she was still Mara Jade, former Emperor's Hand and Jedi Master. She really shouldn't have fallen for that trick.

However, I would like to point out two other things: likeable characters dying can be traced back to either Ep IV or VI, depending on your point of view, with either Obi Wan's death, Yoda's or 'that Ewok'. The other thing being that we've accepted likeable character deaths since Chewie. That's not accurate. A lot of people weren't okay with Anakin's death (though after Chewie's a good few fans were simply numb at that point); I personally wasn't okay with the handling of Ackbar's death; and there were a few objections to the other deaths in LOTF, before Mara.
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 PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:48 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Werehunter wrote:
If it was just to get additional combat training, maybe the Noghri.

Possibly, but the Noghri don't have too much experience killing Jedi (or Sith). Fett does.
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 PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:35 am Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Reepicheep wrote:
Possibly, but the Noghri don't have too much experience killing Jedi (or Sith). Fett does.


Possibly. We really don't know what all the Noghri were used for when they acted as commandos for the Empire. It's not outside the realm of possibility that the Empire used them to hunt hidden Jedi. There are very few books, where Fett is killing Jedi, in fact when I did a quick search when it was first mentioned in Traviss' book that Fett was the expert in killing Jedi, I didn't find one book where he actually did.


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