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DarthMRN's thread for rationalizing stupid stuff
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DarthMRN's thread for rationalizing stupid stuff
 PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:09 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Hi guys. Don't ask why but I intend to go through lots of SW material looking for glaring plot convenience. But I'll also be open to hearing people try to rationalize stuff I find away. I'm willing to give the material the benefit of the doubt. Feel free to give me your best attempt. I will likely return to this thread over long stretches of time, so hope you aren't scared of necroing.



Starting with TPM for now:

When the Queen's ship leaves Naboo, penetrating the blockade, it is targeted from the front over long ranges. They are clearly far from a screen of Trade Fed ships attacking them from the front. After a few hits doing nothing, suggesting shield hits, the generator gets damaged.

My question: Why? If the shield worked before, and was significant enough to justify emergency repairs so it could protect them after, how did the generator get hit in the first place? How did the Feds penetrate the shield to damage its generator?

If the shield had run out after those first few hits, what good would it do to repair it? It would still be empty of power.

There was no enemy who could have hit them from a different angle potentially not covered by the shield, as all enemies were clearly in front of them and far away at that.

If the weapon was special and could penetrate the shield at will, what good would repairing the generator be anyhow?

I am tempted to chalk this up to the same kind of plot convenience that permits Jedi to kick each other in the shins over and over but not land a lightsaber blow until much later in the battle. But let's see what you can come up with.

Your best take, community.

EDIT: Watching right now, and Ric Olie says the shields are gone AFTER the droids have started working on the generator, meaning it was active the whole time. Do deflector shields only absorb part of a given attack, perhaps? The shield remains, but has "holes" punched in it?
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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:13 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Seriously? I'm not one to preach about positivity, but do you even like Star Wars?
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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:20 pm Reply with quote  
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  1337Jedi
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I have thought about that scene before and can only chalk it up to, it was an awesome way to introduce R2 by showing him preform his "made for purpose" other than just calculating hyper jumps for Luke's X-wing. Either way it's a pretty sweet scene and a pretty exciting moment.
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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:17 pm Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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Plinkett, is that you?
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:51 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Oh, I love SW. My week basically stopped for a moment when the new trailer came out, so no question about that. Granted, what I first fell in love with had fewer instances of glaring plot convenience than TPM, but hey, I'm still here expending considerable mental resources, so I guess I kinda love it too.


Yeah, even if I'm right that shields simply have holes punched in them, the scene clearly serves the twofold purpose of forcing an emergency landing on Tatooine and leaving R2 the only droid left for Quigs to bring with him to Watto. It's just a matter of how much sense it makes on its own, and frankly, the "holes punched through" option is pretty darn good in that regard, leaving very little plot convenience unaccounted for. I'll just have to keep it in mind for later scenes with deflector shields and see if it holds up.


Hah. Speaking of Plinkett, anyone wanna tackle the very next instance? The one where, immediately after R2 fixes the shields, the Feds mysteriously stop shooting anyway? While the ship is well within range, almost on top of the nearest Fed ship.
I'm almost positive that has to be plot convenience with no possible rationalization, but let's hear whatever you got anyway.
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:08 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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DarthMRN wrote:
what I first fell in love with had fewer instances of glaring plot convenience than TPM

The conveniences have always been there though. Leia is Luke's sister. Vader is Luke's father. Small galaxy! Leia, who realized they had a tracking beacon on the Falcon, let Han fly straight to the Rebel base on Yavin IV. Luke receives next to no training (a little from Obi-Wan, a little from Yoda) and is able to take down Vader in RotJ. Why the blazes doesn't someone have Luke change his last name so the Empire doesn't find him and kill him? Why do stormtroopers wear armour? Why does Obi-Wan describe stromtrooper marksmanship as "precise" when they never hit anything? How do these characters not have post-traumatic stress disorder (among other things Luke sees the charred remains of his aunt and uncle and his mentor killed before his eyes and Leia watches her freaking planet and everyone she loves get blown up)? How could Han make the Kessel Run in under twelve parsecs if a parsec is a unit of distance?

It's just the way of the beast. Star Wars is romantic story-telling that you're supposed to feel rather than analyze under a microscope. It doesn't hold up, but then, I don't think it's supposed to.

Watch this interview and think about it. If Hamill was describing the prequels, Plinkett & co. would shred it.
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:01 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Hey, stop getting ahead of me! This is my thread for listing plot convenience when I find it. Make your own. Laughing


In seriousness, you seem to think I'm complaining. If I found these things unreasonable I wouldn't still be here. As I said, I have my reasons, and this thread is for the sake of eliminating rational explanations before definitely putting stuff in the plot convenience bin. I just can't think of every possible explanation myself.
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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:51 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Next:

How did Maul track the Queen to Tatooine?


Quigs warns Obi on beforehand to not let them send any transmissions, and we don't see anyone violating this edict. Obi is sure the Sio Bibble transmission is a trick, and everything else we know about the circumstances on Naboo suggests the guy wouldn't have been able to send a genuine message even if he wanted to. Maul later tells Sids the trace to Tatooine was a success, suggesting old-fashioned signal tracing as opposed to Force sensing.

Additionally, in AotC Obi sends a transmission to Ani on Naboo, gets no reply and from this deduces the latter is either in trouble or not present at all. He then widens the signal and realizes Ani is on Tatooine because of a tracking signal, which may or may not have been sent by R2.

Returning to TPM this leaves two options: Either a tracking signal is automatically returned to sender so they'll know the line is open for communication, OR the receiver has to deliberately return a signal. Either can be traced to the nearest planet. Since Quigs and Obi is worried about outgoing signals, rather than the message from Bibble being merely received, it seems likely the return tracking signal has to be deliberate. But if so, how did Maul locate them?

Additionally, how incompetent are the Neimoidians, if all they had to do was send a message on a broad wavelength to automatically learn where the receiver was, and still fail to find the Queen? Lending more support to the option that the tracking signal has to be deliberate. Just like a trick with Bibble becomes unnecessary, and Maul could have sent a holo of himself mooning the Jedi for all the difference it would make.

Are we simply to assume someone on the Queen's retinue secretly sent a return message off-screen? Cause otherwise, it seems Maul's trace was powered by the plot.
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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:27 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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I always got the impression someone sent a message they weren't supposed to. That or the Sith have super secret methods of tracing...
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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:27 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Related to the last:

The time it took Maul to arrive on Tatooine.

Assuming the above is true, that someone replied to the Bibble message, as best I can figure, Maul traced the signal, then left Coruscant and arrived on Tatooine the same night! On the first day of Tatooine, Quigs meets Ani and is trapped for dinner by the sandstorm. On this day Ani says the Boonta Eve is the next day, which prevents days from having passed off-screen. The Bibble message arrived on Tatooine, while Quigs was in Mos Espa. And Maul arrives the night before the race. After having last been seen on Coruscant.

Ergo, he backtraced the message to Tatooine, then arrived there in less than 24 hours! I know the Sith Inflitrator was supposed to have an epic hyperdrive, but damn! Luke says Tatooine is the planet farthest from the bright center of the galaxy, yet a good hyperdrive can cross that distance in less than a day?

This isn't so much a plot hole as something I foresee becoming a problem when compared to later hyperspace journeys, where the plot demands more time pass before arrival.
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 PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:38 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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I just assumed Maul meditated on the Dark Side of the Force. And it showed him, in broad strokes, where he needed to go. Or perhaps Sidious had spies everywhere.
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 PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:07 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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I think that making people pay this much attention to the Phantom Menace is forbidden by the Geneva Convention.
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 PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:36 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Very Happy
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:15 pm Reply with quote  
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  Arawn_Fenn
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DarthMRN wrote:
then arrived there in less than 24 hours!


The devil you say!

DarthMRN wrote:
I know the Sith Inflitrator was supposed to have an epic hyperdrive, but damn! Luke says Tatooine is the planet farthest from the bright center of the galaxy, yet a good hyperdrive can cross that distance in less than a day?


"Anyway, we should be at Alderaan about oh-two-hundred hours."

"This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Kenobi; it will soon see the end of the rebellion."

"Lord Vader, our ships have completed their scan of the area and found nothing.  If the Millennium Falcon went into light-speed, it'll be on the other side of the galaxy by now."


Hyperspace travel has always been that fast in the films. Ignore the ( decanonized ) EU's long travel times in hyperspace, as those authors apparently thought they were writing Star Trek.
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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:54 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Good points. Very significant information.

I guess my feel for this *was* spoiled by the EU.
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