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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:37 pm Reply with quote  
  Mara Jade Skywalker

Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 6355
Location: Beyond Shadows

How do you all feel about the concept of patriotism?

For now I won't go into detail, but it came up at work today from some coworkers that asking kids to say the pledge of allegiance before school is "brainwashing" and "conformity". I was, quite frankly, taken aback by that sentiment, inspiring this thread.

I don't consider it brainwashing to instill loyalty in children for their country. I don't think it should be required of them (i.e. Don't force them to say the pledge or sing the anthem), but I don't see anything wrong with it. We should have a sense of loyalty to our country, whatever country that may be.

While I may be disappointed in the current political state of affairs, I am still proud to be an American. I consider it an honor to pledge allegiance to the United States of America, and I get all choked up whenever I hear the Star Spangled Banner.

How is it brainwashing to pass this sense of patriotism onto one's children? Again, I don't think it should forced, but I see nothing wrong with asking it of them.

For those who live in other countries, what is the sense of loyalty there? Do you care for your flag or your anthem? Does it matter to you that you are Canadian or Scottish or whatever the nationality may be?
"It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:44 pm Reply with quote  

Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 1741
Location: Simulation and Simulacra

Like most heavy concepts, it depends on how you define it. Do you think Patriotism is synonymous with Nationalism?

That's a good example because that made me think of Jello Biafra's Pledge of Allegiance which calls for flag burning. I don't totally agree with the idea or the expression, but it's an interesting thought.

Here's the relevant part, "let's have a country run not by rich people. Not by army people. Not by son's of senator's son's...Now before it's too late to even talk about this stuff, be a Patriot. Be a true Patriot. The kind that cares more about their country than forcing people to worship a flag."

You know that in many countries the flag is a symbol of state, like any other seal or symbol it is displayed on government buildings, and otherwise ignored. The idea of waving the flag and marching it around in public is thought of with a little bit of shame, as arrogant, and suspicious.

Unfortunately that comparison must be made, because that is the reason. For many the public display of flags recalls the Nazis, of war and atrocity, and that is the source of the shame. The idea of multitudes saluting a flag, of children of all people being made to swear an oath of fealty to it, that seems like a horror to many people who live in a democracy. That's what they do in fascist and despotic nations.

I personally believe in Patriotism, as all things, that one should serve that which is good, in this case in your country, as that which aligns itself to the good cause of all humanity. If it doesn't serve that, than it is not good and not worthy.
Spread out all around us is a petrified world, a world of Things, where we ourselves, our gestures, and even our feelings figure in as Things. Nothing can belong to us as truly our own in such a landscape of death. Under commodity occupation the most concrete truth about everything is the truth of it's infinite replaceablity.

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