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Political Correctness
 PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 5:31 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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GrandMaster wrote:
I really liked Age of Ultron. Were there some flaws? Sure, no movie is perfect. But the level of criticism directed at this movie by the Internet at large is ridiculous. It's still a pretty good movie. And when people start leaping to accuse Joss Whedon, creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, of being a misogynist? It makes me really start to worry about our culture.


How can the creator of the sexist Buffy the vampire slayer be a sexist? Surely you jest. If you don't know, it's probably because you don't want to know.

here's a pretty thorough feminist critique of Buffy and Whedon's other shows.
http://www.themarysue.com/reconsidering-the-feminism-of-joss-whedon/

Joss Whedon probably is not a misogynist, maybe. In a sense his work does exist in a vaccum. He doesn't write good female characters, but because he's one of the few people who writes female leads at all, that is viewed as being female positive.

Even if he wrote great, truly feminist women, you know what would be more feminist? To actually hire women as writers and producers. When the only "feminist" writers you hear about are white dudes, that's a problem.
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 PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 3:41 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Hey, Walker, an author I follow, Jenny Trout, does episode recaps of Buffy, if you're interested: http://jennytrout.com/?page_id=5723

It's along the same lines of your link, but takes on each episode.
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 PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 4:31 pm Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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 PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 5:54 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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Indeed, Joe. Wink

I can't speak about Joss Whedon's projects in general since I've only seen Firefly, of his TV work, so I'm gonna stick solely to Age of Ultron, which I saw again yesterday and now feel I have a better handle on.

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 PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 8:02 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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 PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 5:51 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Jedijoe, was that directed at me?
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 PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:31 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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More at the articles you and Life posted.
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 PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 1:40 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Thanks for at least admitting that. If you feel that the subject of negative portrayal of woman in media is not worth discussing, your commentary is not required. If you are trying to disrupt the conversation with your flippant "joke" because you can't defend your position, I call that trolling.

The fact that you don't care about woman's opinions on the subject just goes to show the problem is real. My issue isn't really with Whedon, it's with the members here that have implied those who do have a problem with him are wrong to express that opinion. You don't get to have a one sided discourse, and if you failed to consider that voicing your opinion might be met with people who disagree with it, that's on you. Just like Whedon.
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Last edited by Dog-Poop_Walker on Thu May 21, 2015 2:41 am; edited 1 time in total


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 PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:40 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely against negative portrayal of women. There is a problem in the media with oversexualizing and objectifying women. However, Joss writes flawed, human characters. And when you're looking at a show like Firefly, you're dealing with a ship run by thieves. Of course Mal is going to be a jerk sometimes, because that's the way his character is written. He's not meant to be idolized and emulated, because it's known from the very beginning that he operates in the moral grey area. Just because Mal sometimes flaunts his "dominance", doesn't mean that Joss endorses such discourse.
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 PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:45 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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I thought the movie was wonderful. I'm planning to go see it again this weekend or the next. I did have criticisms, though. I'm supposed to be working on my thesis, so I'll have to expound later. But as to Black Widow, it has sincerely annoyed me the way she's been portrayed in the promotional material. Always emphasizing her breasts as the focal point of the shot. First of all, not all women have breasts that size, so stop indicating that's what makes a woman worth something. I, for one, am about as tiny as I can be. I shop at Victoria's Secret, specifically because they run smaller than everyone else, and I buy the smallest size they sell. So...while that has never been an issue for me self esteem wise, I know it is for many women. Second, and really this is the same point as the first, that is not what makes a woman! It is only there for eye candy, and it infuriates me.

However...I had no real issues with Black Widow's actual portrayal in the movie. I think people are nitpicking.
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 PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 10:57 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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Black Widow was probably my favorite character in the first Avengers and in Winter Soldier. I do have to say though, in Age of Ultron...

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The way they handled her character, otherwise, I had no problem with.
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 PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 6:45 pm Reply with quote  
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  GrandMaster
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Jedi Joe wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely against negative portrayal of women. There is a problem in the media with oversexualizing and objectifying women. However, Joss writes flawed, human characters. And when you're looking at a show like Firefly, you're dealing with a ship run by thieves. Of course Mal is going to be a jerk sometimes, because that's the way his character is written. He's not meant to be idolized and emulated, because it's known from the very beginning that he operates in the moral grey area. Just because Mal sometimes flaunts his "dominance", doesn't mean that Joss endorses such discourse.


I agree with all of this. People have an assumption that creators always share the views of their characters, but sometimes they're writing characters who are flawed and wrong.
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 PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:29 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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... Why does 'flawed' automatically (and solely) mean sexist? Characters can be incredibly flawed and not be sexist arseholes.
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I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.


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 PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 9:55 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Life Is The Path wrote:
... Why does 'flawed' automatically (and solely) mean sexist? Characters can be incredibly flawed and not be sexist arseholes.

Since when did "flawed" automatically mean sexist? Confused

Why is it that we can have characters that murder, steal, smuggle drugs, kill children, lie, be emotionally manipulative etc. but one sexist remark and...


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 PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:24 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Because this generation has turned into a bunch of sensitive pansies. Hee-hee. Wink
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