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Episode VII in 2015 [spoiler thread]
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:32 am Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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Except for loving Kylo Ren, I agree with Reep...as well as with MJS about the loss of the EU.

I liked RO, and the books by Claudia Gray, Zahn, and Miller. The rest...meh. And, yes, I really dislike the new direction Disney/LFL are taking the saga. This PC/SJW crap just ruins everything it touches. As much as I dislike TFA and the Aftermath books, how I have very low expectations for TLJ and IX, I think I do hold out just a flicker of hope that Dave Filoni can create a post-RotJ series that just might light a flicker of renewed interest in me. However, if he just continues the crap fest that JJ started (and now looks to add to), I think I'm just gonna hang up my SW fandom and move on. I'll just think...well, it was a good 40 years, time for something new.

Maybe Villenue (or however you spell his name) can breathe life back into Dune.

If only we could get rid of all of those SJW's from Hollyweird. Meh, one can dream.


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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:09 am Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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@Reepicheep, I spoke with my son and a co-worker (separate discussions, not at the same time) about your last post in this thread. It got me thinking more about how I felt about the "new direction" for the post-RotJ. Think you hit the nail on the head as to how I felt, but couldn't get to the root issue. That's it, though....the destruction of the OT, of everything that Han, Luke, Leia, R2, 3PO, Chewie, Lando, and the Rebellion achieved, how those characters grew (even Vader), was all wiped out by LFL's writers with "creative freedom". Apparently, they couldn't see a path of growth from the end of RotJ, so they decided to start the cycle all over, to essentially retell the same story. And, from what we've seen thusfar from TLJ trailers and such, it doesn't look like there was any course correction. Then to bring JJ back to pound in the final nail on the SW coffin...as my son said, I now feel sorry for GL. He sold his creation to Disney and handed the reigns over to KK thinking that they'd be able to continue what he started. But, instead, they just destroyed his creation and are attempting to create their own PC/SJW narrative.

NOTE: I say all of this as someone that came to terms with the "Legends" decision with the hope that they'd be able to develop a great continuation of the story post-RotJ by avoiding some of the missteps that occurred in the EU. Now, unfortunately, we see that wasn't the case.

I wonder if anyone internal to LFL dislikes the new post-RotJ direction, but are either afraid to say it or just happy to still have a job? Pablo? Leland? Any of the authors like Zahn, Miller, etc.?


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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:05 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:
But...while it still pains me how they basically made null and void the entire original trilogy, I'm enjoying the movie for what it is. I can either continue to be bitter and miss out on everything Star Wars from here on out, or I can compromise a bit and jump back into the universe that brought me so much joy as a teenager.

I'm not excusing their narrative methods, but I think I can meet them in the middle. Smile

That's a good way of looking at it. When I watch TFA, it's not like I'm sitting there with a scowl on my face. I'm enjoying it. The important thing for me is that I've become at peace with the direction things have gone. Obviously that doesn't mean I like the direction they've gone, but it is what it is and we may as well make the best of it that we can.

I've always said that if the Star Wars fandom becomes a source of stress, you're doing it wrong. That said, I genuinely enjoy tearing apart things that I don't like, so I see no reason to discontinue that as long as I'm having fun doing it. Razz

Skywalker2B wrote:
NOTE: I say all of this as someone that came to terms with the "Legends" decision with the hope that they'd be able to develop a great continuation of the story post-RotJ by avoiding some of the missteps that occurred in the EU. Now, unfortunately, we see that wasn't the case.

It was good that they made the EU announcement as early as they did because it allowed us to come to terms with it. It took me a while, but shortly before TFA came out I actually got excited for it. I was still sad about the EU, but I was willing to give this new direction a shot. So, yeah, I think it is important to stress that my problem with TFA is not that it over-wrote the EU. I may dislike Disney's decision to over-write the EU, but I'm not going to hold that against TFA as a film.

Skywalker2B wrote:
I wonder if anyone internal to LFL dislikes the new post-RotJ direction, but are either afraid to say it or just happy to still have a job? Pablo? Leland? Any of the authors like Zahn, Miller, etc.?

I'm sure there is. A lot of the people who work for LFL are big Star Wars fans themselves and you have to think that a fair number of them don't like the fact that TFA nullified the OT. At the same time, I was genuinely surprised at how many people, including Star Wars fans, loved TFA. When I left the theatre, the first thing I said to the friend I went with was, "Now I know what people felt like in 1999". My friend agreed with me and I fully expected universal backlash against the movie. To my surprise, TFA was receiving almost universal praise. I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone. Of course later on the backlash did arise among the fanbase, but it still surprises me that TFA holds a 93% on Rotten Tomatoes.
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:41 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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@Reep: A 93% on RT just means that 93% of the reviewers said that you should see it. It's a cultural phenomenon, of course most will think it should be seen, but they may have just above tepid responses to it. The film is easy and yet another remake of The Hidden Fortress (the 3rd in franchise history).

Honestly I miss the EU but we'd be looking at it through rose colored lenses if we didn't acknowledge the mess that was the Bantam Spectra era and the mess that the Del Rey era became in places. There are great and wonderful things in the EU, but my lord we act like it's this perfect thing sometimes.
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 PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:50 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Caedus_16 wrote:
There are great and wonderful things in the EU, but my lord we act like it's this perfect thing sometimes.


Nostalgia is always perfect. Wink
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 PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:32 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Caedus_16 wrote:
@Reep: A 93% on RT just means that 93% of the reviewers said that you should see it. It's a cultural phenomenon, of course most will think it should be seen, but they may have just above tepid responses to it. The film is easy and yet another remake of The Hidden Fortress (the 3rd in franchise history).

True.

Caedus_16 wrote:
Honestly I miss the EU but we'd be looking at it through rose colored lenses if we didn't acknowledge the mess that was the Bantam Spectra era and the mess that the Del Rey era became in places. There are great and wonderful things in the EU, but my lord we act like it's this perfect thing sometimes.

Also true lol

There are definitely things I disliked in the EU. For example, I hated the idea of both Palpatine coming back from the dead (well, being cloned technically, but same difference) and Luke turning to the dark side in Dark Empire... and for very similar reasons to the things I dislike about TFA: It wrecked the ending of RotJ!

I think ultimately the reason I found Dark Empire easier to swallow is because it's pretty easy to ignore. The Palpatine clone is killed and Luke returns to the light at the end, so you can basically pretend it never happened. A small hiccup in the narrative and then we're back on track. And that goes for many things in the EU. Who knows? If the Jedi (or whatever they will be called post-TLJ) and the Republic return soon, maybe I will find it easier to forgive TFA than I think.
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:21 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Skywalker2B wrote:

Maybe Villenue (or however you spell his name) can breathe life back into Dune.

If only we could get rid of all of those SJW's from Hollyweird. Meh, one can dream.


I've got bad news for you...

A story about a Matriarchal cult that overthrows an analogy for Middle Eastern Colonialism, directed by a guy whose two most successful films are about non violence and female protagonists rising to the top of male dominated fields, you say?
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:25 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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I have absolutely no qualms about the change of the old EU to "Legends" in order to make room for the new movies.

Mostly because those books still exist, are generally still in print for new audiences, and can still be enjoyed.

I'm re-reading my entire collection (a slow process that will take years), but I'm having tons of fun reading these old stories again. I'm reading them in an in-universe chronological order (meaning most of what I'm reading first came out within the past 5 years or so) but what I've read so far has been great.

But I also loved The Force Awakens and the new post-ROTJ canon (such as it is right now).

Now, one thing that I think would be great: I see no reason why they shouldn't continue writing Legends novels. They should absolutely continue writing the stories of Ben Skywalker and Jaina Solo and Jagged Fel and all of them, especially as it pertains to the Legacy era. I mean, CLEARLY brand them with the "Legends" banner and include a page right near the front that explains what that means, so as not to confuse casual readers. But I think it could and should be done.
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:22 pm Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Skywalker2B wrote:

Maybe Villenue (or however you spell his name) can breathe life back into Dune.

If only we could get rid of all of those SJW's from Hollyweird. Meh, one can dream.


I've got bad news for you...

A story about a Matriarchal cult that overthrows an analogy for Middle Eastern Colonialism, directed by a guy whose two most successful films are about non violence and female protagonists rising to the top of male dominated fields, you say?


Well, from what we're being told, Brian (Frank's son, and author of many Dune novels along with Kevin Anderson) is very involved in the project to make sure that their stories are done justice. Meaning...as long as they stick to what's in the books, it should be good. I was a big fan of the 1984 movie (there's a fan edit that is great and my definitive version) as well as the tv series. Both got some things wrong though. I'm hoping this new one will "learn from the past attempts" and take the best aspects of each.

I'm hoping that they cast a young enough actor for Paul. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure they'll have to recast him for later movies (Hunters and Sandworms).


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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:40 pm Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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Skywalker2B wrote:
I wonder if anyone internal to LFL dislikes the new post-RotJ direction, but are either afraid to say it or just happy to still have a job? Pablo? Leland? Any of the authors like Zahn, Miller, etc.?

I'm sure there is. A lot of the people who work for LFL are big Star Wars fans themselves and you have to think that a fair number of them don't like the fact that TFA nullified the OT. At the same time, I was genuinely surprised at how many people, including Star Wars fans, loved TFA. When I left the theatre, the first thing I said to the friend I went with was, "Now I know what people felt like in 1999". My friend agreed with me and I fully expected universal backlash against the movie. To my surprise, TFA was receiving almost universal praise. I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone. Of course later on the backlash did arise among the fanbase, but it still surprises me that TFA holds a 93% on Rotten Tomatoes.[/quote]

I'm not so sure. I just read something this weekend where someone spoke with JJ and the new writer for IX and something the writer supposedly said bothers me. He supposedly said that KK, LFL, and even the Story Group has been pretty hands off thus far. REALLY??!!!!! I thought that was the Story Group's job! Just more evidence about something I've brought up before. They initially said that the SG would be guiding the whole story, that everything would be canon, and that there was a story laid out going forward. Man, I hate being lied to. Perhaps they should just come out and tell us that they changed their minds. Instead of all of that: The SG is only going to make sure that all...no, wait...most...non-movie stuff doesn't contradict what the movie producers do, that most of that will be canon, but not when we want to let the authors be creative, oh, and yeah, we're just making up the story as we go along and making sure that the SJW's are happy with what we do.

So, yeah, I don't think there is much discontent with the story direction within LFL.


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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:42 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I'm not following. Why would the lack of a cohesive vision mean that there isn't discontent within Lucasfilm regarding the direction things were taken in TFA? If anything wouldn't it make some people more upset? If the Story Group really does just let people do what they want without any consideration for the larger story than it would seem like TFA didn't mess up some things for story reasons that will be revealed later (fingers crossed!), but that Abrams simply did it because he felt like it.

That said, I would take what Abrams said about the Story Group being hands off with a huge grain of salt. After four directors getting sacked for creative differences and the reshoots done on Rogue One, the Story Group is getting a reputation among the fandom, whether true or not, as a group of control freaks that don't allow directors any creative freedom. Abrams was almost certainly aware of that when he gave his response and so his answer may have been diplomatic.
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Last edited by Reepicheep on Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:30 am; edited 1 time in total


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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:53 am Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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Perhaps you're right.


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