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Episode VIII Discussion Thread
 PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:04 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Alright people, it's here. There's a first, itty bitty look at nothing but it's Episode VIII related. Let wild speculation begin.

Link to the production video.
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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:43 pm Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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I'm nervous for this one. I'm very hopeful and anticipating a great movie, but Rian Johnson made both one of the best movies (Brick) and WORST movies (Looper) ever.

The middle chapter is my favourite in both trilogies. I'm hoping this one will be too.
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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:11 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I'm excited for this one. Now that the "necessary" TFA is over with, the fans are won over, and a new director is taking over, I'm excited to see the ST come into its own and start to really tell a new story. I'm also excited to see some added depth to the new characters, the promised darker nature of this film, and of course, LUKE SKYWALKER!

We really need an explanation for Rey's superpowers too...
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:16 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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This is the film that either makes of breaks Disney's worthiness. They gotta maintain the quality, without ripping off the OT this time.
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:21 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Reepicheep wrote:

We really need an explanation for Rey's superpowers too...


I'm sorry, I'm worried I missed something. What superpowers, beyond "strong in the Force"?
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:47 pm Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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I'll predict that they'll follow the example of TFA and reveal Rey's heritage very early in the movie (like they did with Kylo Ren).

I'm also curious about the ring theory. From what I read it really works well with 1-6. So I wonder if someone can use that to hypothesize what will happen in 8 and 9?

Right now, though, 8 seems so far away. Even Rogue One seems far away to me. Probably just because I have a very busy year coming up.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:56 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Taral-DLOS wrote:
Reepicheep wrote:

We really need an explanation for Rey's superpowers too...


I'm sorry, I'm worried I missed something. What superpowers, beyond "strong in the Force"?

The fact that she can use telekinesis, fight competently with a lightsaber, probe Kylo Ren's mind, and use a mind trick without any training. There has to be an explanation in an upcoming movie or I will not be happy. It goes against everything in ESB - that becoming a Jedi involves discipline, training, patience etc.
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:58 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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While natural skill with the Force is anything but new (TCW babies doing TK, Ani & Luke superpiloting) Rey takes it to another level for sure. It would not be good for Disney to outclass GL's Chosen One with a Mary Sue of their own.
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:24 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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That....that might be the first time I've seen someone on the internet use the term "Mary Sue" correctly in years. I don't think it 100% fits Rey, but she has some of the characteristics.
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:36 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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As far as the setting goes, she is a perfect character in almost every way, devoid of obvious weaknesses. Only thing I can see that she misses is adoration from everyone around her, and frankly that requirement always seemed like a stupid reason to not be allowed to call a spade a spade.

No, I don't give much for the so-called proper definition of Mary Sue. I prefer the common usage, actually. More communicative meaning.
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:09 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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That's kind of the gift of language. Meanings of words change based off of popular usage and therefore create new definitions.

I honestly think if we're going to start labeling Star Wars characters 'Mary Sue' or 'Gary Stu' we might as well just call Leia, Luke, Anakin, Obi-Wan, basically anyone who could be considered a main character get's the label. The series is also very basic in its retelling of The Hero's Journey and all that so it's all supposed to be very basic storytelling and such. Having a character be a Mary Sue doesn't bother me so long as she's interesting, which I think Rey is and Daisy Ridley is charming enough to pull it off in a way that both works and remains inoffensive to modern over-thinking.
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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:19 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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That most characters would qualify is another reason I don't like the proper definition. It's like only serious, realistic dramas could ever have a non-Sue by that measuring stick. But if it is defined primarily in terms of perfection, Rey is at least so far, heads above her predecessors. The big three all had tangible flaws, as did Ani, Obi and Padme.

But the closest Rey comes is reluctance to be even more heroic and selfless than she already is, which can barely be called a flaw at all. Certainly nothing compared to Han's selfishness, Luke's anger, Leia's abrasiveness, Ani's everything, Obi's lack of empathy and vision, or Padme's love-blindness and lack of will to live.
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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:46 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Reepicheep wrote:
Taral-DLOS wrote:
Reepicheep wrote:

We really need an explanation for Rey's superpowers too...


I'm sorry, I'm worried I missed something. What superpowers, beyond "strong in the Force"?

The fact that she can use telekinesis, fight competently with a lightsaber, probe Kylo Ren's mind, and use a mind trick without any training. There has to be an explanation in an upcoming movie or I will not be happy. It goes against everything in ESB - that becoming a Jedi involves discipline, training, patience etc.


Meh. Agree to disagree, I suppose. I just took it that she's so strong in the Force that some of it comes naturally. We know Anakin could do things naturally (racing pods took the Force, apparently).

Or compare to the Millennium Falcon training scene in A New Hope. Luke had no training, but through instincts and simple instructions (which I'm confident someone could've intuited, especially if you know about what the Jedi are, which Luke didn't) was able to do some pretty cool moves. Take that a few steps further, and maybe her instincts were enough.

Did you watch Stargate: Atlantis? In the pilot episode, they explain that a subset of people have a gene that let them control the alien technology. Most required months of training, but then the protagonist shows up and he can do it naturally. That's how I imagined Rey. Some people can do it after tons of training, but some people can grasp it easily.

But I imagine what will be revealed is her parentage, which will point to why she might be extra sensitive/powerful or have better instincts.
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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:51 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Caedus_16 wrote:
The series is also very basic in its retelling of The Hero's Journey and all that so it's all supposed to be very basic storytelling and such. Having a character be a Mary Sue doesn't bother me so long as she's interesting, which I think Rey is and Daisy Ridley is charming enough to pull it off in a way that both works and remains inoffensive to modern over-thinking.

See, but that's the thing. Rey isn't following the classic Hero's Journey. Luke started out as a simple farmboy who had to gain the skills and maturity to defeat, or in his case redeem, the villain. Rey is already great at everything she tries. I almost feel like she doesn't need to train with Luke because she can figure it all out on her own!

This might not be a bad thing. The contrast between Rey and Kylo Ren fascinated me because it's like the role of hero and villain is reversed. Kylo is the one who needs training and is plagued by his inner demons and is, at least in some ways, like Luke, while Rey has all the confidence and badassery of Vader. I found it hard to relate to Rey the way I could with Luke because of that and, though I found him despicable and pathetic as a person, I couldn't help but find Kylo interesting. I found it disappointing the first time I saw TFA, but I've become intrigued by it. I hope it was intentional and they're actually trying to turn the Hero's Journey on its head because that could be new and interesting.

That said, I do dislike how easy it is for Rey to "learn" how to use the Force on principle because of how much I loved everything Yoda taught Luke in ESB about a Jedi needing training and discipline and that the quick and easy path is the dark side.
Taral_DLOS wrote:
Did you watch Stargate: Atlantis? In the pilot episode, they explain that a subset of people have a gene that let them control the alien technology. Most required months of training, but then the protagonist shows up and he can do it naturally. That's how I imagined Rey. Some people can do it after tons of training, but some people can grasp it easily.

I haven't seen it, but like MRN said, it's odd that the Anakin and Luke,who are both very strong in the Force and one is the Chosen One, required training and Rey doesn't. And unlike that example, there is no explanation or even any acknowledgement that her quick grasp of the Force is unusual. Again, it just seems to go against Yoda's teachings in ESB... unless maybe Rey has major issues with the dark side in Episode VIII? I guess we'll see.
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Last edited by Reepicheep on Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total


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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:32 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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Reepicheep wrote:
Taral-DLOS wrote:
Reepicheep wrote:

We really need an explanation for Rey's superpowers too...


I'm sorry, I'm worried I missed something. What superpowers, beyond "strong in the Force"?

The fact that she can use telekinesis, fight competently with a lightsaber, probe Kylo Ren's mind, and use a mind trick without any training. There has to be an explanation in an upcoming movie or I will not be happy. It goes against everything in ESB - that becoming a Jedi involves discipline, training, patience etc.


This honestly does not bother me a whit since I assumed that Rey received some training as a small child at Luke's not defunct Jedi Academy. I also assumed she blocked out the memory of these skills along with the rest of her pre-Jakku memories.

With that background, her powers seem as plausible to me as Luke using the Force to destroy the Death Star after a solid 15 minutes of training with Obi-Wan aboard the Falcon.
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