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Should Luke fight with a lightsaber in the Sequel Trilogy
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Should Luke fight with a lightsaber in the Sequel Trilogy
Yes
90%
 90%  [ 10 ]
No
9%
 9%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 11

Should Luke fight with a lightsaber in the Sequel Trilogy
 PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:10 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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I'm really torn on this, guys.

On one hand, it will be our only chance to see Palpatine's "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us" played out in saber practice. And that by filmmakers who could actually make a meaningful and memorable scene out of it.

On the other is the RLM perspective: "War does not make a Jedi great". That it is undignified for a wise, aging master of the Force, let alone THE master of the Force, to stoop to swashbuckling swordplay.


I'm assuming here that not only will Luke need to get hands on at some point to justify the First Order's fear of him anyway, but that any saber action would be handled by a CGI-enhanced stunt-double to avoid another Palp vs Mace fight. I see no option for him to sit on Skellig Dagobah and look wise, so this is strictly a question of whether his involvement should include competently made lightsaber action or not. As a concept.
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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:56 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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I've given this a lot of thought, and I've decided yes. I must see this.


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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:04 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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It would be kind of a waste not to.
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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:51 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I would like to see it, but I think there's a good chance we won't. There are a couple of issues that immediately come to mind.

First, there's the fact that if the ST follows the PT rules that Force users become more powerful with age, then Luke muster be ultra-powerful right now and would absolutely mop the floor with Kylo Ren. There is the possibility that Luke could fight Snoke though.

And second, as MRN brought up, there is this perceived notion that wise, old Jedi masters shouldn't fight. I would think this idea comes mostly from Yoda's non-combatant role in the OT, and from people's dislike of Yoda fighting in the OT... for some reason. I never saw Yoda as a pacifist, even in the OT. The Masters in the PT never had a problem with fighting and I never had a problem with it either. So I wouldn't have a problem with it from that angle.

Still, it does seem odd for the Saga to end with Luke throwing away his lightsaber, only to pick it up again in the ST. I don't think that Luke became a pacifist after the events of RotJ or anything (though maybe after the academy massacre?), but the end of RotJ is a powerful moment, showing that... okay this is going to sound extremely cheesy but I don't know how else to word it lol... showing that love is more powerful than the sword. Going right back to the sword in the follow-up seems anti-climactic.
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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:43 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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So, I'm kind of imagining a scene like from the novel Inferno. Where the son of Han and Leia goes up against Luke thinking his Dark Side powers will make him worthy but just gets his rear end handed to him by one of the greatest and most powerful Jedi who ever lived.

But then for plot reasons it needs to be Rey to actually defeat Snoke and/or Kylo Ren.
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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:16 am Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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Yes. Just, yes.


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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:39 pm Reply with quote  
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  Jaina Solo Fel
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Honestly, I've never even considered the fact that he might not use his lightsaber. I grew to know and love the Luke Skywalker from the Legends EU, who could mop the floor with just about anybody, but hardly ever needed to. For me, that's the answer. A truly great Jedi can make it out of most situations without a fight, but when circumstances force his hand (no pun intended Laughing ), he can still fight and win.

And I also just really really want to see Awesome Master Skywalker kick some serious butt with a lightsaber. Cool
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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:51 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Reepicheep wrote:
Still, it does seem odd for the Saga to end with Luke throwing away his lightsaber, only to pick it up again in the ST. I don't think that Luke became a pacifist after the events of RotJ or anything (though maybe after the academy massacre?), but the end of RotJ is a powerful moment, showing that... okay this is going to sound extremely cheesy but I don't know how else to word it lol... showing that love is more powerful than the sword. Going right back to the sword in the follow-up seems anti-climactic.

I didn't even consider that. I may have to put down the first No vote in light of that.

TFA did not mind undoing the results of the OT, though, so I doubt it would actually inform on the filmmakers' descisions.
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 PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:12 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Interesting that you interpreted Luke throwing away his lightsaber as him saying that he was never going to use it again. In the movies, when did he ever even use it as a Jedi, other than for the fight against Vader? I guess he killed like three of Jabba's goons. Kind of a lame career as a swordsman if that's it.

Yoda didn't want Luke to fight Vader because he feared he would be killed or turn to the dark side. I never got the impression in any of the films that Jedi were not supposed to fight, in general.
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 PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:30 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Interesting that you interpreted Luke throwing away his lightsaber as him saying that he was never going to use it again.

Nonono. I said in my previous post that I didn't think Luke would have become a pacifist after the events of RotJ. Just, as a story, before TFA the story ended with the hero throwing away his sword, and I think that was a powerful and character-defining moment. It's a bit like a fairy tale where the prince and princess live happily ever after. Of course, they will have some difficulties in the future, but we don't care about those because evil has been defeated and, for the most part, the characters will be happy. Yes, Luke is still a Jedi and he will still use his lightsaber when he has to, but he has shown that there is something greater than violence so seeing him fighting in the sequel seems anti-climactic.

Thing is, RotJ had a great ending, and in some ways I don't think it should have been messed with. I don't think the ST will be able to re-tie everything together and give us a definitive ending to the Saga after it's already been done. But then I guess they aren't really trying to. The Saga will now continue on indefinitely with no end in sight. TFA signaled the end of the Saga being the interconnected story made by one eccentric, but visionary man and began the era of making things up as we go along. I guess, if it's happening anyway, I may as well stop complaining and try to enjoy it. If that's the case, then I say bring on Luke Skywalker fighting with a lightsaber!
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:10 am Reply with quote  
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  Louisee
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My very first thought was: "Yes, of course!" It's based on what we read about the character in those many, now non-canon books.

But your opinions made me think this through.

Eventually, I voted yes.
It's a pity that there isn't an "Yes, if he has to" option.
I think, if there is a Jedi, if he is in the situation, that a lightsaber using opponent is attacking him, he has to fight with the lightsaber (or any other weapon capable of blocking a lightsaber) in order to stay alive. Whether this situation appears, this is for the story writers to decide.
And for me, RotJ did not conclude that he would throw away his lightsaber. Did I miss something?

About another Mace vs. Sidious fight, I have no objections at all. It would only show that he could mop the floor with Kylo Ren effortlessly. Why not?

On the other hand, I think that would be nice if Luke would fight Snoke, and it would be fun if this fight would be only by using the Force. This would also support the "wise old Jedi Masters are beyond lightsaber fighting" theory, and it might be easier to implement, although I am unfortunately very unfamiliar with the process of filmmaking, so I don't know for sure.


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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:01 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Louisee wrote:
And for me, RotJ did not conclude that he would throw away his lightsaber. Did I miss something?


I was referring to this moment:



Again, I never thought that Luke became a pacifist after this, but as a narrative, it would feel weird to have this character-defining moment where Luke decides that unconditional love is greater than lightsabers and Jedi powers only to have him pick up a lightsaber again in the sequel. It's probably part of the inherent problem in making a sequel to a story that already had a great ending.

Honestly though, if the Saga is going to continue past RotJ anyway, then I would rather Luke fight or have a very good reason not to fight. Having him fight makes sense from a character standpoint, if not from a narrative standpoint. It's a bit of a nitpicky issue and I'm not going to be shaking my head in the theatre if Luke fights; I'll be enjoying it along with everyone else.

Maybe I need to get with the times and stop expecting stories to have endings. Neutral
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:23 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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The premise of this thread is that Luke will have to fight. The only question is, if he as the ultimate master of the Force and an old wise sage, should fight only with the Force or with a lightsaber as well. Especially when our only two precedents for the latter are either strangely slow given IU precedent, or weirdly fast by OUU standards for such an old man. Unless they reinvent lightsaber fighting, I don't really see them winning that one any more than GL managed.


And my point about Mace vs Palp was that due to GL changing his mind on the day of shooting, two barely trained older men were tasked with portraying two of their time's greatest lightsaber duelists, and the result being predictably lackluster. And how part of my premise here was that stunt doubles enchanced by CGI would be the way it was done in the ST, just to eliminate Mark's age and fitness from the equation.
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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:01 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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DarthMRN wrote:
The premise of this thread is that Luke will have to fight. The only question is, if he as the ultimate master of the Force and an old wise sage, should fight only with the Force or with a lightsaber as well. Especially when our only two precedents for the latter are either strangely slow given IU precedent, or weirdly fast by OUU standards for such an old man. Unless they reinvent lightsaber fighting, I don't really see them winning that one any more than GL managed.

I've never had a problem with Yoda or any other Master fighting with a lightsaber. I'm not really sure where people got the idea that it's beneath Masters to fight with a lightsaber... other than people fabricating another reason to hate the Prequels. Rolling Eyes

DarthMRN wrote:
And my point about Mace vs Palp was that due to GL changing his mind on the day of shooting, two barely trained older men were tasked with portraying two of their time's greatest lightsaber duelists, and the result being predictably lackluster. And how part of my premise here was that stunt doubles enchanced by CGI would be the way it was done in the ST, just to eliminate Mark's age and fitness from the equation.

The best lightsaber duels are the ones when the actors are in their prime. That said, I don't find any of the duels with older actors painful. I'm glad they're in the movies. That said, I though the PT duels with Dooku and Palpatine were significantly better than the Obi-Wan/Darth Vader duel in ANH. I don't know. I'll leave it up to the effects guys/choreographer.
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:03 am Reply with quote  
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  Louisee
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Reepicheep wrote:
Louisee wrote:
And for me, RotJ did not conclude that he would throw away his lightsaber. Did I miss something?


I was referring to this moment:



Yes, this moment was also on my mind, but still, it's not the very end of the film.

Reepicheep wrote:
It's probably part of the inherent problem in making a sequel to a story that already had a great ending.


In this, I kind of agree.
All in all, we will see eventually, how this will play out.


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