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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:38 am Reply with quote  
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  Hogy
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^Well to be fair, Mauls drop resembled that fall. But his fall ended in water and not on an antena.


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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:18 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Huh? Where did it show Maul landing in water in Phantom Menace?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgRLAI02Tow

Quote:
crazywhales
3 months ago

Who understands the MPAA? Guy's getting cut in half in a PG movie

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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:13 am Reply with quote  
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  Hogy
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Huh? Where did it show Maul landing in water in Phantom Menace?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgRLAI02Tow

Quote:
crazywhales
3 months ago

Who understands the MPAA? Guy's getting cut in half in a PG movie


Well it didn't show Maul landing anywere in TPM Laughing
He ends up in a tube filled with water in the comic. But he is an on screen character that fell and survived. Even if it took C-canon material to establish that.
But OK, Maul might not be the best example. How about Obi-Wans fall in E.III when Cody executes order 66.


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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:51 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Neither Luke nor Obi-Wan were cut in half. Good point about Luke's fall though. I had forgotten about that.

In a story like Star Wars, I can buy someone surviving a long fall into water, but water was the last thing I expected Maul to land on when he fell into that reactor shaft... or whatever that was. But I don't think I can ever buy someone surviving the injury Maul suffered.
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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:53 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Lightsabers cauterize injuries though. He was severely traumatized, but he wouldn't bleed out.

He might die from other causes, like starvation or poisoning on his various waste products, but I buy extreme anger and the Dark Side (or: magic) as a survival mechanism.
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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:59 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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TCW is not EU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5bi0_sXYv4

And Padawan Ahsoka drops so many kilometers that she needs to hold her breath during descent.
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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:22 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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DarthMRN wrote:
TCW is not EU.


There is no LFL EU.
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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:33 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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That makes no sense. Particularly since LFL can refer to two different branches of the Lucas Empire.
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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:39 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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What are you talking about? LFL actually has nine different branches.

http://www.lucasfilm.com/divisions/lfl/

LFL is a company that produces many projects, including the media franchise Star Wars and other related merchandise. "The Expanded Universe" is a concept that was invented by Star Wars fans. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anyone from LFL refer to this other than Leland Chee and that was only in regards to canon and continuity.

The definition of EU that everyone else seems to follow, including Leland, is that the SW "Universe" encompasses the six movies so far, and everything else, including the Clone Wars TV show, is the "Expanded" part.
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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:42 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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^^I think that's the debate though, whether TCW has the same standing as the movies or if it has the same standing as the books and comics (thus making it part of the "Expanded" universe).

Based on comments about continuity and canon levels by Leland Chee, I think the official viewpoint is that the TV show is at par with the movies.
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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:25 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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If Simus can live with his head in a jar, Maul can live with half his self.



Thus Maul using the Dark Side to survive a life threatening injury connects with the old Tales of the Jedi comics, the powers of the ancient Sith, and enriches continuity and canon. Laughing
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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:53 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
What are you talking about? LFL actually has nine different branches.

http://www.lucasfilm.com/divisions/lfl/

LFL is a company that produces many projects, including the media franchise Star Wars and other related merchandise. "The Expanded Universe" is a concept that was invented by Star Wars fans. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anyone from LFL refer to this other than Leland Chee and that was only in regards to canon and continuity.

The definition of EU that everyone else seems to follow, including Leland, is that the SW "Universe" encompasses the six movies so far, and everything else, including the Clone Wars TV show, is the "Expanded" part.

So you were talking about the umbrella company, rather than the other LFL, Lucasfilm Licensing, which controls the EU. Got it.

The EU wasn't invented by fans, that much is for sure. On the old website, the databank for SW lore was divided into "The Movies" and "From the Expanded Universe". So if it was fan-made originally, it got accepted by the brass long before I entered the picture.

As for Leland, here is his stance ever since TCW:
Leland wrote:
[Is Clone Wars EU?]
The Clone Wars will not be considered Expanded Universe. They'll be ranked up there with The Movies. T-canon in its entirety is not supposed to be considered part of the EU pillar, but part of the Lucas pillar.


http://web.archive.org/web/20120508045509/http://blogs.starwars.com/holocron/56

It is no coincidence that TCW was able to run roughshod through the EU.
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:23 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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I'm sure we've discussed this cluster * in the continuity section, but Leland's comment here is ultra confusing. If TCW is not "EU"? Than what is "EU"? In his mind is the EU synonymous with C canon? What about the old Clone wars TV show, plus Droids, Ewoks, and the Holiday Special?

Are we supposed to interpret that those TV shows are EU and S canon, but TCW TV show is not EU just because it is T canon?

As I said to everyone else, including Lucas, the movies are the movies, and everything else is EU with holocron continuity levels. The definition for EU is a statement about media, not about continuity or canon.
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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:11 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:


As I said to everyone else, including Lucas, the movies are the movies, and everything else is EU with holocron continuity levels. The definition for EU is a statement about media, not about continuity or canon.


The first half of this paragraph says it all, and I disagree with it wholeheartedly. It is Lucas and his company (now in hands of others) that defines these things, not us. So if Leland Chee says that TCW is in a level above the EU, closer to that of the movies, then it is so.

Really, the worst thing they did was invent T-canon, because everything they said afterwards said that T is essentially equal to G-canon.

They've told us that the other TV shows are not at T/G level. So it is so. They have the right to change their minds, as they made the material.

I remember the debate on Wookieepedia when the TCW film came out. We collectively agreed that the show had to take place in 20 BBY, given the fact that Anakin was a Knight and there were Venator-class Star Destroyers, and other factors. But we were told that it took place in 22 BBY. People freaked out, and thought that all the other stories beforehand would be erased from continuity. But that didn't happen. We were assured that the previous material would stick around. And it did (though not exactly in the way we foresaw; we were told the timeline would compress so all pre-Knighthood stories took place before TCW, but I understamd instead Jedi Trial moved ahead and the rest we were told that Anakin is a Knight, even if the text says otherwise). So even though we as a collective agreed one thing, we were told that the canon said otherwise, and we adapted.
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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:03 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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In the mind of GL, Star Wars can be divided into three pillars: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The Father is the Lucasverse, where the man's vision for SW lies. The Son is the EU, licensed tie-ins that he has disowned as not part of his vision, but accepts because it makes him money. The Holy Ghost is fanworks and community, which he rightly realizes matters, and has always been supportive of (one of the few compliments I can still pay him).

Used to be, the Father pillar was clearly identified by containing only the movies, thus being a statement of media, not continuity, upon casual inspection. But it was always about Lucas involvement and vision under the hood. Even in those days, the EU was restricted by non-movie stuff, rules and guidelines for the universe he had laid down internally, so clearly the movies weren't the *only* god-tier canon, even back then. TCW was originally supposed to be good old pure EU the way Ewoks and CW was, but then GL hijacked the production and turned the show into his personal vision for the Clone Wars. Who was anyone to object? Still his involvement was lower than it had ever been before, with ideas and concepts outlined by him turned into scrpts by others, that were filmed by others, with him merely as arbitrator. He was further removed from the final product than he had ever been.

So Leland rolled with it and created a new canon level that would ensure TCW got to bullrush the EU when needed, but still sent a message that the movies would still be the ultimate authority the way they had always been. Mistaking the distinction between Movies and EU as being one of media rather than continuity is more than reasonable, cause that is in practice how it has looked for 30 years. But it was always about Lucas authority and involvement.
So it is true as Taral says above, that the owners can do whatever. But there is an appreciable reasoning behind how it turned out too.


Going forward, the real interesting thing to see is how Disney will deal with this, not having some clear-cut criterion for canonicity to lean on. I suspect their One Canon claim comes from that, they can't arbitrarily assign certain levels to certain things and expect anyone to acknowledge it.
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Last edited by DarthMRN on Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:53 am; edited 2 times in total


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