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What does it mean to balance the Force?
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:09 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Another thing I don't get about the prophecy is the fact that the Chosen One is supposed to destroy the Sith, but when the Chosen One is discovered, the Sith are thought to be extinct. What were the Jedi waiting for if they didn't believe the Sith could return without them knowing?

Oh, how I wish the prophecy didn't exist. Confused
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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:16 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Not really. The Prophecy was presumably made before the "last of the Sith" and the Jedi knew that the Sith returned because of Maul before Anakin had even become a Jedi. The reemergence of the Sith followec closely with the discovery of the Chosen One would have cemented in their minds even more that the Prophecy led to the destruction of the Sith.
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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:11 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Not really. The Prophecy was presumably made before the "last of the Sith" and the Jedi knew that the Sith returned because of Maul before Anakin had even become a Jedi. The reemergence of the Sith followec closely with the discovery of the Chosen One would have cemented in their minds even more that the Prophecy led to the destruction of the Sith.


Okay, technically the Sith were known to be active when Anakin was discovered (but only just). What about the 1,000 kriffing years between the last known Sith and the emergence of Darth Maul? Why not attribute Chosen One status to a Jedi 1,000 years earlier who had played a major role in the apparent eradication of the Sith?
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 PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:16 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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I don't remember the post Bane pre Pt timeline. Did the Jedi know about the Sith at any time during this period or did they think that the Sith were destroyed when Bane implemented the rule of two?
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 PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:31 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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The impression I got is that after Bane, the Sith went into hiding and the Jedi thought they were extinct. I'm not even sure that the Jedi knew about Bane (though Yoda seemed to know about the Rule of Two), but it's been a long time since I've read the Darth Bane Trilogy. At any rate, it's what I always implied from the Prequels, minus Darth Bane.
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 PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:27 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Yeaah... I don't know. Supposedly Lucas created Darth Bane and it talks about him and the history of the Sith in TPM novel, which Lucas also supposedly provided the details for.

I say "supposedly" because this is attributed, but I haven't seen any actual quotes or any source material and I sure have not read that book. It would be interesting to see just what exactly the PT movies say about the Sith, other than the one quote from Yoda that there are always Two, but again, I couldn't find it on the net and I'm not going to watch those movies again.
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 PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:29 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I've seen these movies so many times, I don't need to re-watch them! Razz

*replays TPM Jedi Council scene in my mind*


After Qui-Gon informs the council about Darth Maul in TPM, Ki-Adi-Mundi says that "the Sith have been exctinct for a millenia." To which Mace Windu adds, "I do no think the Sith could have returned without us knowing."

So there you have it. No Sith for 1,000 years (or so the Jedi thought).
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 PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:22 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Ok. Based just on that quote the Jedi know the Sith are gone, but it doesn't state how or why. Even without Bane there isn't any reason to assume the Sith are gone because the Prophecy has already been fulfilled and that goes double since we know the Jedi still believe the Chosen One is yet to come.

It also implies that the Sith returning is something that the Jedi consider a possibility since they say "The Sith couldn't return without our knowing" not, "The Sith are gone and can't return."
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:29 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Ok. Based just on that quote the Jedi know the Sith are gone, but it doesn't state how or why. Even without Bane there isn't any reason to assume the Sith are gone because the Prophecy has already been fulfilled and that goes double since we know the Jedi still believe the Chosen One is yet to come.

But how do the Jedi know the prophecy isn't fulfilled? When Vader threw Palpatine down the reactor shaft, presumably bringing balance to the Force (???), there was no voice saying, "The Force has been been balanced!" We assume this action fulfills the prophecy, because it is the defeat of the Sith, dark side. Why didn't the Jedi not think the Chosen One had already come and gone if they really thought the Sith were extinct?

Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
It also implies that the Sith returning is something that the Jedi consider a possibility since they say "The Sith couldn't return without our knowing" not, "The Sith are gone and can't return."

I don't think Ki-Adi-Mundi thought it was a possibility. When he says, "The Sith have been extinct for a millenia", it sounds like he's scoffing, like if I told someone that a group of Vikings had just landed. If the Council were expecting the Sith to return, or at least thought it a likely event, I think they would have taken Qui-Gon's story more seriously, had they sensed it or not.
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Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.


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