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Halt of EU books for Ep7 and new timeline?
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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Darth_Henning wrote:


Realistically, regardless of story, wiping the EU is a poor business decision anyway.

If they wipe the EU, they will:
- Gain hardcore fans from the new trilogy
- Keep Hardcore movie-only fans who already exist
- Keep Hardcore EU fans who like the new movie timeline
- LOSE Hardcore EU fans who dislike the new movie timeline/prefer classic EU

If they keep the EU, they will:
- Gain Hardcore fans from the new trilogy (they aren't going to notice a difference)
- Keep Hardcore movie-only fans who already exist (again, won't really notice much difference)
- Keep Hardcore EU fans who are appeased that they kept the EU
- And not lose anyone (more than usual attrition)

Keeping the EU is simply the better business decision.


I'm not so sure about that. Star Wars fans are notorious for continuing to spend money on a franchise they don't like anymore. Take me, for example. When Episode VII was announced, I was ready to boycott, but after a year and a bit, I can't imagine missing it. We're suckers, we really are.
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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:22 pm Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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I'm sure there will be some people that will decide to stop purchasing SW stuff out of protest...but it won't be enough to make a difference.

I've come to the point where I don't care which way they decide to go, I just would like to know. I want to know what new books or comics to look forward to. Right now...there are none. I'm not too thrilled with their decision to write books around the big 3 by authors that don't know anything about the existing material beyond the movies.

If the next book will be a reboot picking up right after RotJ to set up Ep. VII...I'm fine with that. If the next one will be Sword of the Jedi to continue the existing storyline...great. Just tell us something already. Rolling Eyes


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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:30 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Reepicheep wrote:


I'm not so sure about that. Star Wars fans are notorious for continuing to spend money on a franchise they don't like anymore. Take me, for example. When Episode VII was announced, I was ready to boycott, but after a year and a bit, I can't imagine missing it. We're suckers, we really are.



Im not so sure about that. I know a lot of people even with LOTF and FOTJ are starting to be more picky about things, and it appears sales numbers have dropped around here since the announcement.

Just observing the bookstores here, most would get 20-25 copies of a new star Wars book, and be down to fewer than 10 within two weeks, which meant among 20some stores, that well over 100 copies sold in that period. Since the announcement, pretty much every book that's come out (other than Mercy Kill in Paperback) has sat around at high numbers for months, or even until now.

Admittedly this is anecdotal evidence from a single city, but it i a noticible difference.

And I can guarantee you, that if they decide to wipe the EU, I won't be purchasing any new material. I'll find other ways to view it if i care at all that don't involve financial support.
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:20 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Your'e right it does make sense from a business standpoint to have AN EU, but perhaps not THE EU.

The biggest factor, which is actually a small one, is just the business of the holocron. I can see Disney wanting to scrap this because they could decide it is not worth the resources. That being said, if they wanted to create a new past continuity I should think that it would not be any more cost effective to pay for someone to do that than to keep what they already have.

The other issue is that is that most of the EU does not belong to Disney. By making new material that has story cross over with other companies they are in a sense encouraging people to buy someone else's products. This is really only a problem if Disney wants to put forth the effort to create or utilize their own production of materials, which there is no evidence that is the case. In one case, video games, they are licensing to EA, so there is no reason to think that they won't be happy to let someone else continue to produce material and just cut them a licensing check.
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:15 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Your'e right it does make sense from a business standpoint to have AN EU, but perhaps not THE EU.

The biggest factor, which is actually a small one, is just the business of the holocron. I can see Disney wanting to scrap this because they could decide it is not worth the resources. That being said, if they wanted to create a new past continuity I should think that it would not be any more cost effective to pay for someone to do that than to keep what they already have.

The other issue is that is that most of the EU does not belong to Disney. By making new material that has story cross over with other companies they are in a sense encouraging people to buy someone else's products. This is really only a problem if Disney wants to put forth the effort to create or utilize their own production of materials, which there is no evidence that is the case. In one case, video games, they are licensing to EA, so there is no reason to think that they won't be happy to let someone else continue to produce material and just cut them a licensing check.


I concede that I don't know all that much about ownership of books etc. but wouldn't LFL which is now owned by Disney either maintain some partial ownership of the works already out there, or derive some degree of royalty from them? And therefore still turn some profit from them?

IDK

Given that they will likely have to licence out the books anyway, it would seem silly to invalidate all the ones that are already out there that they could continue to turn some profit from. The comics issue is still in the air of course though.

Its hard to say without really knowing what the profit structure is from the existing EU products out there.

The most frustrating thing is that they refuse to divulge any details about what is going on.
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:42 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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I was listening to Coffee with Kenobi's latest podcast and Tricia Barr had an interview with Erich Schoeneweiss (Del Rey editor) who said "we're working on tons of stuff" in regards to new Star Wars fiction. He said right now there's nothing going on as far as guides.
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:45 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
I was listening to Coffee with Kenobi's latest podcast and Tricia Barr had an interview with Erich Schoeneweiss (Del Rey editor) who said "we're working on tons of stuff" in regards to new Star Wars fiction. He said right now there's nothing going on as far as guides.


Well that's the first good news I've heard since the aqusition. However, what exactly this tons of stuff is, and when we might hear about it bothers me. Does he mean sequel tie-ins, classic era books, something entirely new? Some hint after 8 months of basic silence would be good. That's I think what's getting to all of us.
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:50 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I doubt this is referring to anything post-RotJ unless it's Episode VII-related.
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:51 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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I have complete faith they'll deliver and give the fans what they want...a 32 book series covering the adventures of Jar Jar in the Sequel Era. Laughing
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:34 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
I have complete faith they'll deliver and give the fans what they want...a 32 book series covering the adventures of Jar Jar in the Sequel Era. Laughing


I swear to G** man!! *shakes fist*
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:54 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Darth_Henning wrote:
I concede that I don't know all that much about ownership of books etc. but wouldn't LFL which is now owned by Disney either maintain some partial ownership of the works already out there, or derive some degree of royalty from them? And therefore still turn some profit from them?


Yeah, pretty much. One thing I'm not sure that could be a gray area is that LFL gives license to use the SW name and other trademarked characteristics, but I think anything that they don't outright own that is the original authors creation is the property of the author or the publisher, which is a large part of the EU. If Disney just keep things up and expand their contracts with Del Rey that shouldn't be a problem, but I don't know if it will be if they decide to go with a different publisher.

Until now I had forgotten that Disney owns Walden books, so they might have them as preferred publisher over Del Rey. Same for the comics with the Disney owned Marvel versus Dark Horse.
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:48 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:

Yeah, pretty much. One thing I'm not sure that could be a gray area is that LFL gives license to use the SW name and other trademarked characteristics, but I think anything that they don't outright own that is the original authors creation is the property of the author or the publisher, which is a large part of the EU. If Disney just keep things up and expand their contracts with Del Rey that shouldn't be a problem, but I don't know if it will be if they decide to go with a different publisher.


This I do know. One author (I think it was Zahn or Stackpole) was asked what they thought of the decision to do something with one of their characters (I think it may have been Mara's death, but I'm not sure). The author said that while it wasn't what they would have chosen, that all characters, planets, etc. intellectual property was owned by Lucasfilm to use as they desired, and this was the case for all characters etc. so that authors and companies wouldn't be limited by having to seek multiple approvals for each work, instead just going through LFL for it.

So even if contracts get moved and other authors take over, they still own the rights to use who and whatever the author or publisher have created. Though the publisher retains the right to publish and profit from the materials (like how Bantum still produces new copies of TTT paperbacks etc even though del rey now has the licence)


Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:

Until now I had forgotten that Disney owns Walden books, so they might have them as preferred publisher over Del Rey. Same for the comics with the Disney owned Marvel versus Dark Horse.


Walen Books doesn't have a sci-fi division though. That might be a deciding factor for books.

Comics...iffy. But Marvel won't put the resources into it that DH will, so there might be more profit allowing that licence to continue. Better to have 50% of a larger pie than 100% of a much smaller one I would think. But who knows.
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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:51 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Very good points. I suspected that might be the case because Lucas actually had a division entirely to produce books, called "Lucas Books". If they do in fact, and it seems to be the case, put in all the production to create the content of the books, then they just left it up to the publishing company to manufacture and distribute the books.

So that means no matter who the publisher is, it should not effect the content of the books. In that case the only incentive to change the EU canon would be a creative one. For the purely business aspects we've discussed there doesn't seem to be a good motivation for doing that. That's possibly hopeful.
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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:22 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Very good points. I suspected that might be the case because Lucas actually had a division entirely to produce books, called "Lucas Books". If they do in fact, and it seems to be the case, put in all the production to create the content of the books, then they just left it up to the publishing company to manufacture and distribute the books.


I don't know how the division of labour works, but that sounds about right.

Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
So that means no matter who the publisher is, it should not effect the content of the books. In that case the only incentive to change the EU canon would be a creative one. For the purely business aspects we've discussed there doesn't seem to be a good motivation for doing that. That's possibly hopeful.


Basically. To me the only reason to change EU canon is that JJ Abrams isn't capable of playing nice in the sandbox, and wants his way or the highway.

Hopefully Leland, Pablo, et al. can keep him in line.
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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:25 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Darth_Henning wrote:
Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
So that means no matter who the publisher is, it should not effect the content of the books. In that case the only incentive to change the EU canon would be a creative one. For the purely business aspects we've discussed there doesn't seem to be a good motivation for doing that. That's possibly hopeful.


Basically. To me the only reason to change EU canon is that JJ Abrams isn't capable of playing nice in the sandbox, and wants his way or the highway.

Hopefully Leland, Pablo, et al. can keep him in line.


There's also the fact that the Sequel Trilogy is being based on Lucas's treatments and we already know that Lucas couldn't care less about the EU. We don't know how close the new movies will stick to the treatments and, who knows, maybe that recent script change (where Abrams and Kasden replaced Arndt) will be more in the EU's favour. I still highly doubt the new movies won't flat out contradict the EU, but until we get something official, I won't give up hope.
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