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Mandalorians
 PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:47 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Some discussions on RebelForce Radio have been bothering me lately, and my mind is still trying to get used to the idea. The issue is Jango Fett (and in turn, Boba Fett) and the Mandalorians.

According to George Lucas, Jango Fett is not a Mandalorian. Because of George's viewpoint, Star Wars: The Clone Wars reflects that stance. So unlike some of the things George has said (planet Stewjon), Jango not being a Mandalorian carries some weight. It's technically T-canon and contradicts established C-canon.

But it's not as simple as T-canon contradicting C-canon. It's taking something fans have assumed and held true for decades, and then being changed. That's much harder to wrap one's mind around. Not too mention trying to somehow, loosely, make that fit into all those stories I've read.

So, T-canon trumps C-canon, Jango is not a Mando, what does this mean? This is the other issue I'm grappling with. Do I accept it? Well, I think I have to. I think, in this case, the story has truly changed, and I need to accept it in order to stay current in Star Wars lore. Future Star Wars stories would feasibly reflect the change.

If Jango isn't a Mandalorian, does this mean he's more awesome than a Mandalorian then? Will we ever find out what type of human Jango is? (ie. Corellian, Coruscanti, etc)

Anyways, it's a can of worms, so feel free to join in Cool
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:00 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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This would be a good example of why I've lost so much interest in current Star Wars. This stuff drives me crazy.

I'm hoping that Lucas stepping down means less revision and more cohesion, and then we can attempt to rationalize the mess Lucas left us with. If this happens, I might start getting excited about future Star Wars. We'll have to wait and see.
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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:04 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Ok, now I have to ask: has it ever been said explicitly that GL thinks Jango isn't Mandalorian? Or is that the logical conclusion of what was said by Satine and others in TCW?

If the latter, then this is where the EU has room to grow and do its own thing.

Looking at the Mandalorian society we are presented with, Jango is clearly a Mandalorian from the "True Mandalorians" group (the True Mandalorians were wiped out before Episode I, but others that followed that lifestyle survived as the Mandalorian society written about in Karen Traviss's novels).

The New Mandalorians we see in TCW have de facto rule over the planet, and consider themselves the one true Mandalorian society. But even TCW makes it clear that other Mandalorian cultures exist (including Death Watch).

When I heard "Jango Fett was NOT a Mandalorian!", what I heard might be the equivalent of a citizen from a divided nation saying that a citizen from the other side wasn't "really" from that culture. Like if a Paris-France person said that a Vichy-France person wasn't really "French". It's not a perfect analogy, but I mean to say that Jango isn't a Mandalorian, per Satine's definition of Mandalorian, which is different from the definitions held by others.
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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:30 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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In the last interview Dave Filoni did with RebelForce Radio, they specifically asked him whether Jango was a Mandalorian, and Dave recounted how George's stance is that Jango isn't a Mandalorian.

Link: http://www.shotglassdigital.com/release/rebelforce-radio-march-21-2014/

Because of George's stance on Jango, Dave and crew did the Mando/Satine stuff in TCW.

Now if the people in charge of straightening out continuity want to do a technicality, then yeah, that would be one way to handle it. Would be easy enough to say Jango was Death Watch and not considered a Mandalorian by those pacific posers on Mandalore (my bias is showing).

On the other hand, would they do that? Or would they want to stay true to George's intentions? And George's intentions seem pretty clear: Boba was never meant to be a Mandalorian. That was created by the EU, and George doesn't hold to that.
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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:52 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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To be honest, I always felt that it was better if he and Boba weren't Mandalorians. When the Mandalorian were first introduced, they were set in the very distant past fighting a war. They lost and ended up on a planet where their leader died, and what I assumed was pretty much the entire army. To me, it just made since that Boba found the leader's ruined armor and modeled his own after it, using the ancient legend about Mandalorian to his advantage.

Then they went and added them to the more 'modern' stories, though I'm not entirely sure when this was done. I actually think that making modern Mandalorians took something away from the setting, especially the was on particular author used them. It especially took away from Fett. Instead of being his own type of badass, he is now one of many, even if he has name appeal. Instead of making his own way as a warrior, he's comes from the what are consider the ultimate soldiers in the galaxy. Not as impressive that way in my opinion.


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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:14 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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If GL doesn't think Jango is mando, and TCW has exposition explicitly stating this, there are two ways it could go: The least likely, Leland decides that acknowledging this would put the EU in such danger that it is worth letting the EU override the Lucasverse, and thus has it retconned away. Or the more likely in the current climate, because of the impending doom of the old EU canon, there is no reason not to respect GL's wishes and have future material treat the guy as non-mando.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:03 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Werehunter wrote:
When the Mandalorian were first introduced, they were set in the very distant past fighting a war.


Maybe my memory is fuzzy, but weren't the Mandos first introduced in Marvel Comics Star Wars, were Boba was hanging with them and they said they fought in the Clone Wars? Then in later EU prior to Ep.II the ancient Mandalorians were developed for the Dark Horse Sith comics, and Boba Fett material picked from the Marvel stuff and was ambiguous whether he was Mando, and said his name was Jaster Mereel.

Then the prequels came out and never said anything about Mandalorians or Jaster and Boba fett fighting in the clone wars was nixed, so they retconned the Marvel stuff to say that it wasn't really him, but someone else dressed as him, and then created the backstory about how how Jaster Mereel was a different guy who was Mandalore and passed the title onto Jango all that.

So in other words it was never established that Jango was Mandalorian until material that came after Ep. II, and in fact his character never existed prior to that time at all.

I don't think it's so much a case of Lucas wanting him NOT to be Mando, so much as not caring about them at all since he never wrote anything about them and they might as well not exist as far as he's concerned, BUT if they are going to be part of the EU then we're going to have The Clone Wars mish mash.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:10 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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GL invented the mandos, near as I recall. It was part of Boba's film backstory that he had the armor of a mando supercommando who had fought the Jedi during the CW.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:09 am Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Hmmm, I thought they were introduced in the Tales of the Jedi comics. Maybe I'm wrong since I never followed the Marvel comics.


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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:58 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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After checking, the mandos apparently first appeared in the ESB novelization, based upon earlier drafts of the ANH script where "Imperial Shocktroopers" from the far side of the galaxy fought the Jedi during the Clone Wars and were wiped out. Before the formation of the Galactic Empire, meaning they were the soldiers of a different enemy empire. Boba Fett anno 1979 wore part of their armour, so the mandos are not an EU creation, but one of GL's oldest ideas for SW.

It was never clear on whether Boba was one or not though, beyond being associated with them and wearing scraps of their armour. So the EU was justified in making the connection explicit, though its worth noting that even Dark Empire in the 90s' had him as merely an ex-stormtrooper. The biggest problem being how the Shocktroopers were wiped out, suggesting Boba was never actually meant to be more than a bounty hunter. I guess that is where Jango's non-mando status comes from in GL's eyes.
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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:12 pm Reply with quote  
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  AceAzzameen
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It will take some getting used to for me, although I guess we just have to accept it since Lucas has made his decree. I always just assumed Jango was a mandalorian, especially from those great Episode II tie-ins like Jango Fett Open Seasons.

I really enjoyed Boba Fett's original EU origin too, so it was hard to get used to the idea he was a clone.


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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:11 am Reply with quote  
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  Mad Wook
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Bah humbug. Butt out George and count your billions.


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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:20 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Mad Wook wrote:
Bah humbug. Butt out George and count your billions.


Didn't he give most of that away?
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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:00 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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First I've heard of it. In any case, as a majority Disney shareholder, he'll be swimming in SW cash for the rest of his life regardless.
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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:53 pm Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227949/Star-Wars-creator-George-Lucas-donate-4billion-Disney-deal-charity.html

This was widely reported when he made the sale.
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