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Legacy Of The Force: Invincible Discussion
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:11 pm Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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My guess is that they will take the easiest route: Jaina defeats Jacen, he is redeemed, but is then killed by someone else. A mix of Vader and Ulic Qel-Droma. I would really like to see Jacen survive the series, preferably redeemed - it would be good to see how people would treat him in the future, how he could live with himself, there would be lots of interesting possibilities for him - but if not, then as a villain, yet either would be a bold step for DR and I can't see them taking it.


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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:05 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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I don't see how his redemption would be all that different than say Kyp's. Both went darkside and killed lots of people. Both were under the influence of Sith. It's nothing really new. Plus I'm not sure I want to read a bunch of future books on Jacen's struggle to find himself again. Rather than see him suffer a painful fate of writers struggling to find a place for him in future series, I think it's best if he simply dies. Maybe Anakin will greet him in the Force and Jaina will seem them both.
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:22 am Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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Kyp has made to be a victim of Exar Kun's. It wouldn't be the same thing. And Kyp's fall has been very rarely mentioned during DR's era.

Anakin can't greet Jacen because DR will not show us his Force Ghost. Jacen might become a Force Ghost when he dies, but even that's unlikely. But what's certain is that we won't see Anakin. It's not even likely that he became a Force Ghost when he died.

I would like to see books where Jacen struggles with his actions and tries to redeem himself. But I'm sure that DR doesn't want to see that kind of books, so there will not be any "danger" of that. He will die and will be forgotten.


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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:13 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Judicar
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Reepicheep wrote:
I agree with most 0f what you say, Darth Judicar. I'd love to see Caedus survive LOTF (and not as Jacen either).


Exactly . . . because we just haven't seen all he can do as a Sith. I think he could do more if given more time.
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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:03 am Reply with quote  
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  Aush
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Rouge77 wrote:
Kyp has made to be a victim of Exar Kun's. It wouldn't be the same thing. And Kyp's fall has been very rarely mentioned during DR's era.

Anakin can't greet Jacen because DR will not show us his Force Ghost. Jacen might become a Force Ghost when he dies, but even that's unlikely. But what's certain is that we won't see Anakin. It's not even likely that he became a Force Ghost when he died.

I would like to see books where Jacen struggles with his actions and tries to redeem himself. But I'm sure that DR doesn't want to see that kind of books, so there will not be any "danger" of that. He will die and will be forgotten.


I'd say his ghost appeared in Traitor (is debatable), and Mara didn't fade away right when she was killed either. Anakin Skywalker didn't fade but became a Force ghost, unless it happened sometime he was being cremated (could Anakin Solo been the same.) The Force ghost is a huge mystery still, but if they'll show Mara Jade's ghost to both Ben and Luke, why can't they bring Anakin Solo's back?
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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:31 am Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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Because they don't want to show Anakin Solo's Force Ghost. For some reason. I mean, if they would have wanted to show it to us, they would have done that in NJO. But instead his body didn't fade and all the supposed "Force Ghost" appearances by him in Traitor were either Vergere's (who was partially responsible to his death, so it was mockery on her part, to play her victim and use his form to corrupt Jacen) or that monster's - which had the people living inside it - tricks.

The canon about what happened to Anakin Skywalker's body seems to change quite often. But last time I read about it, his body did fade after his death. Althought the accounts differ, like I mentioned. What happened to Mara was, I think, either badly planned thing or two writers wanting different things.

So, they could show Anakin Solo's Force Ghost to us. But they won't. This comes from a bitter Anakin fan, but still, his Force Ghost seems to be as forbidden subject as his resurrection to DR. I bet they expect that we Anakin fans are mightly happy and satisfied to have droids and starships named after him.


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 PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:15 pm Reply with quote  
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  jedipoodoo
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Perhaps the Force Ghost thing has to do something with attachment? I'm just hypothesyzing here, but maybe some Jedi feel attachment to certain Jedi, or unresolved situations. My defense of Anakin Skywalker would be, maybe he appeared to Luke as a sort of "thank you" for bringing him to redemption at the end. Perhaps Mara appears to Luke as a comforting gesture, to soothe him. I didn't read the NJO series, so I'm not sure, but, maybe Anakin Solo has not reappeared because he was not powerful enough to resist being dissipated in the Force? Remember; Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin Skywalker/Vader were powerful enough, and old enough to possibly resist this "dissipation" into the Force, for awhile. Perhaps Mara, with her Master-level abilities has similar power; while Anakin Solo, while reputedly strong in the Force, is only a Jedi Knight, with all the abilities and drawbacks it may entail.

But that's just my 2 cents! Very Happy
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:24 am Reply with quote  
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  Aush
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You may be on to something but there's two things I'd respond with (both deal with the NJO so keep that in mind). First, there was the possible appearance of Anakin Solo in Traitor and although some could argue it's Vergere's working or all in Jacen's head, I believe it was Anakin, mainly because of his missing lightsaber but that could be Vergere too, but I believe it was him. Second, what about the Twi'lek Jedi who fades away in Ruin who was even less powerful than Anakin Solo? Of course, this was back when all Jedi were believed to fade until Episode I came out and Qui-Gon didn't fade. Why did this Twi'lek fade but Anakin didn't? I have a theory and I may post it sometime around here but it looks like the idea of Force ghosts is still be explored, especially after what's become of Mara Jade in LotF.
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Judicar
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Theory? Please tell us, Aush . . .
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Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
-The Code of the Sith

In mourning . . . Crying or Very sad


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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:24 am Reply with quote  
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  jedipoodoo
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Aush wrote:
You may be on to something but there's two things I'd respond with (both deal with the NJO so keep that in mind). First, there was the possible appearance of Anakin Solo in Traitor and although some could argue it's Vergere's working or all in Jacen's head, I believe it was Anakin, mainly because of his missing lightsaber but that could be Vergere too, but I believe it was him. Second, what about the Twi'lek Jedi who fades away in Ruin who was even less powerful than Anakin Solo? Of course, this was back when all Jedi were believed to fade until Episode I came out and Qui-Gon didn't fade. Why did this Twi'lek fade but Anakin didn't? I have a theory and I may post it sometime around here but it looks like the idea of Force ghosts is still be explored, especially after what's become of Mara Jade in LotF.




Come on! You can't just say you have a theory, and then hold back on it! Spit it out! Wink Very Happy
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  Aush
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It's not a great theory since I can see holes in it but it's just me trying to solve the Force ghost problem. I'd say Anakin didn't fade because by going back for his body, Jacen became a prisoner and learned ways to defeat the Yuuzhan Vong; Jaina fell but came back stronger than before to drive the Yuuzhan Vong mad; and his body was more for the grieving of everyone and closure. Of course, for Tahiri, she's lost it again Smile

As for the Twi'lek, she probably faded because she had almost fallen but learned to get over her grief and return to the light to fight the threat head on and without the anger.

My main thought would be that the ones that fade are ones who accomplished great things in the eyes of the Force (Ulic, Obi-Wan, Yoda, etc.) But for Anakin and Mara, they had great control of the Force before their deaths and seem to have manipulated it. Of course, you could say Mara had the control because Qui-Gon taught Yoda, Yoda taught Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan told Luke, Luke told his wife. And Anakin Solo was so in-tune with the Force before he died, how could he not know? How does Anakin Skywalker know? I'd say Anakin Skywalker knows because he's so powerful and defeated one of the greatest threats to the galaxy by returning to the light. But like I said, after reading Revelation, I think it's clear the authors are still playing around with the idea of Force ghosts and I wonder if they're trying to get all these examples of those who fade and those who don't figured out.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:31 am Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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Anakin Skywalker became a Force Ghost because he was trained to do so by Obi-wan Kenobi's spirit after his death. That's how Ryder Windham gives it in his juvenile book The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader. Which makes me think that surely Anakin Skywalker would have teached it to his grandson after his death too... But trust DR to deny this from Anakin. Sad


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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:29 pm Reply with quote  
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  Aush
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If that's true, then maybe Mara Jade Skywalker will teach Anakin Solo and that's how he'll make his appearance.
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:39 pm Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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It would have had to be the other way around. (Although Luke had talked about Force Ghosting technique with Mara, so she probably didn't need anyone's help.) Obi-wan said to Anakin Skywalker that he had to teach him the technique quickly, before Anakin's consciousness would fade - for ever, it appears. So, if no one teached Anakin - either Luke before his death, or someone in the Netherworld immediately after he died - then he is gone forever.

There's a a little bit longer Invincible summary available in Random House's Summer Catalog. I don't know the spoiler policy here well, but I posted it in NJOE's Legacy forum.
The catalog itself is available from here:

http://www.randomhouse.com/rhpg/catalog_download/index.html


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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:07 pm Reply with quote  
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  comanderbly
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Since the series started I have been of the opinion that its a launching point for new material - Syal in a new Rogue Squadron perhaps? And there are all the Mandos we have been introduced to along the way. So I think Caedus is going to make it through the series and gain a position in the Imperial Remnant. Then we will get new books/series dealing with Caedus as the bad guy. I hope that does not happen though, I would like to see things resolved.

My other thought (influenced by Luke and Corran discussion of Kyp in I, Jedi) is that Jacen will be redeemed but in the face of his own actions he will be overwhelmed and exile himself.


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