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Emperor Palpatine aka Darth Sidious
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Emperor Palpatine aka Darth Sidious
 PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:31 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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To kick things off, reading Choices of One got me thinking about the whole racist species thing again with the Emperor. He has a dislike of aliens. But is this something personal or something he uses to manipulate his subjects?

If it's personal, it makes me wonder why he chose Darth Maul as one of his apprentices. On one hand, Maul was human looking, but then he was also heavily tattooed (perhaps done by Sidious himself). Maul had very visible horns.

Then there is Thrawn. Thrawn is blue skinned with red glowing eyes. Yet the Emperor associates with him. This makes me wonder if Palpatine has a higher tolerance for human looking aliens, and very little tolerance for non-human looking aliens.

Plus there's the fact that the Emperor himself doesn't look human. He's got glowing yellow eyes and freaky looking skin. He looks more like a Dressillian than a human.

On top of that, Palpatine is a Sith, a member of an order named after an alien species. To me, Palpatine being racist against aliens almost seems hypocritical. I think it will interesting if the Plagueis novel sheds some more light on the topic because I find it interesting to poke at.
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:34 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I thought an earlier book or story established that Palpatine wasn't speciesist at all, but the galactic core mentality that were the most ardent supporters of an Empire were, so he just went with it to cater toward them.


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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:11 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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I agree. It would be in keeping with his manipulative ways and keep a certain level of fear and mistrust amongst his subjects. By isolating his core base from outer rim systems, where his grasp, I believe, was a lot more tenuous, he decreases the possibility of a mass uprising - instead making sure that any possible uprising is contained to a specific system. Which makes it more ironic that the rebels who did him in were mainly, in the beginning, comprised of humans.

It also explains what some may perceive as erratic behaviour, from his time as alien-loving Senator to pistol-whipping-aliens Emperor. Though, conversely, that could also be explained as him being the master manipulator and actor that he was, and merely pretended that he liked aliens all that time.
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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:50 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I think he just hates everyone. He's like the drill instructor in Full Metal Jacket. He doesn't discriminate because he hates everyone equally.


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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:38 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Haha, I could agree with that.

Drill Sgt. Palpatine: You are a worthless pile of Hutt slime! Get out of my face you alien trash. What is that? What the kriff is that? Why is there a jelly doughnut in my Empire?
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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:55 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Where did the idea that the Empire was racist against non-humans come from? It certainly wasn't form the movies. Granted there weren't any aliens on the Empire side but there weren't many in the Rebellion either. The Prequels continue with that since the Emperor often worked with aliens.

The first time I remember the topic appearing was in Heir to the Empire, but don't know if it was from a TV special or some comics that came before.


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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:31 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Werehunter wrote:
Where did the idea that the Empire was racist against non-humans come from? It certainly wasn't form the movies. Granted there weren't any aliens on the Empire side but there weren't many in the Rebellion either. The Prequels continue with that since the Emperor often worked with aliens.

The first time I remember the topic appearing was in Heir to the Empire, but don't know if it was from a TV special or some comics that came before.


It was presumably derived from the absence of aliens in the Imperial navy in the films. But I agree, it's not as though the Rebels had a whole lot of aliens. And it could easily be explained as some sort of segregation of forces. There weren't any humans stationed on the Mon Cal cruisers during battle that we could see; it could be a matter of practicality rather than speciesism.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:10 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Did the Marvel Comics or the Han Solo and Lando Adventure books every state the Empire was speciest? Because all of that was before Zahn. Actually, wouldn't that have been established when Han hooked up with Chewie since the Imperials were persecuting Wookiees? I would assume that was in the Han Solo Adventures but I could be wrong. Might have came later.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:50 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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It was probably the West End Games RPG.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:55 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
Did the Marvel Comics or the Han Solo and Lando Adventure books every state the Empire was speciest? Because all of that was before Zahn. Actually, wouldn't that have been established when Han hooked up with Chewie since the Imperials were persecuting Wookiees? I would assume that was in the Han Solo Adventures but I could be wrong. Might have came later.


That's basically what I've been asking. Even the Wookies being slaves is a far cry from racist against non-humans. Especially since the Empire was willing to blow up an entire planet of humans for rebelling. Would making Wookies slaves be to see if they rebelled as well at some point.


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 PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  grayJeedai08
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nah, the Wookies were enslaved for forced labor.


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 PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:11 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Which is what they were used for. But I don't remember reading anything that talked about them becoming slaves at that point. Throughout history groups have made slaves of their defeated enemies. Which is far different then enslaving a group because of their race.

But I was mainly asking where the idea came from that the Emperor and the Empire in general were racist and sexist.

Going back to the thread topic, I wouldn't mind seeing a book from the Emperor's point of view set in the time frame of the original film.


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 PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:13 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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So, really, it's George Lucas' fault the Emperor is racist. It was cheaper to just dress actors in Imperial uniforms and call it a day than to put people, in alien makeup. Perhaps we've been misunderstanding Palpy this entire time! Wink
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 PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:48 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Werehunter wrote:
Which is what they were used for. But I don't remember reading anything that talked about them becoming slaves at that point. Throughout history groups have made slaves of their defeated enemies. Which is far different then enslaving a group because of their race.

But I was mainly asking where the idea came from that the Emperor and the Empire in general were racist and sexist.

Going back to the thread topic, I wouldn't mind seeing a book from the Emperor's point of view set in the time frame of the original film.


I'm not exactly sure where it started but it was way back in the EU so pretty canon by now.

And I'm not sure I could take an entire book told from Palps's POV. Maybe something where his POV is juxtaposed against an opposite POV.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:23 pm Reply with quote  
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I looked over the Imperial Sourcebook from West End Games, and I didn't see anything about speciesism. It even says that all sapient species within the Galactic Empire are considered citizens.

My guess would be that it originated with Zahn insofar as that he indicated that Thrawn overcame a bias within the Imperial Navy against nonhumans to rise to the highest rank, which I suppose is reflected within the films.

That this bias in the Imperial Navy became speciest sentiment throughout the Empire, to an extent of harassment, probably spun out of that.

But the films in general don't really depict alien soldiers or naval officers, even during the Galactic Republic. Perhaps it's simply an indication that the galaxy is by and large human despite the massive amount of alien species, or the aliens are smart enough not to get involved in the conflicts, or the humans dominate the galactic core and the aliens are typically more in the rim region of the galaxy.

I suppose the argument could be put forward that the selection of Jango Fett as the template for the clone army that would become the backbone of the Galactic Empire was racially motivated because I'm sure there are certain alien species that simply make for better soldiers than humans. But on the other hand, the Expanded Universe has also gone to establish Dooku as being a speciesist and that may have been his decision rather than Palpatine's decision.


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