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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:10 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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@DPW: Dude...you have to pick up the Armageddon release. The Ben Affleck commentary is one of the funniest things you'll listen to, it's amazing. He hated that movie so much.

Also I'm a Criterion fanboy. I don't buy everything, but if the special features are heavy enough I will. Also...it's the only real way for me to get my Bergman on.
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 PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:21 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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I'm aware of that. I think it makes him come off as a massive tool. I know that Bay can be a huge jerk to work with, but unless an actor was mistreated or messed with in editing, I think it is wrong for them to bash their own films. And it's not even like Affleck's fifth worst movie, so it's not like it was somehow beneath him to be in that one.

Unless other people want to, I'm not really going to talk a lot about Under The Skin, but one thing bothered me about it. Why don't we see the alien shaving? You could argue that the alien appears as is, but we do see it putting on makeup and are shown why. It's intentional to show that it's a reflective and constructed act. Does the director really just not think of women as having body hair? He did try to desexualize it, so maybe he thought that showing the shaving would be transgressive and could be fetishistic.

I recall that they did show it in The Edge of Seventeen, which was double transgressive as sexual/humiliating with the body hair and absurd/comedic with the face shaving. This whole analysis is coming off kind of creepy, isn't it? Perhaps that's why it was avoided

I bit the bullet and watched Valerian. I was surprised by the hate, it's better than fine. Not good, but as good as say, Avatar or I, Robot.

I did like the Rihanna burlesque sequence, it was creative and it's stupidity gave it an ironic charm, even if unintentional. I couldn't distinguish clearly between what was cgi, stunt person, and Rihanna, so I suppose that is successful fx.
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:21 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Saw two really good movies over the weekend.

Logan Lucky which was made by the guy who did the Ocean's Eleven movies. This one is also a heist movie and it's funny. Basically, some white trash characters rob NASCAR. I loved it. It made me laugh, I liked the characters, and the story was fun.

Wind River on the hand was a serious movie, but nonetheless excellent. It's a murder mystery set in the snowy remote landscape of an Indian reservation in Wyoming known as Wind River. A local conservationist finds a dead woman while out trying to catch a mountain lion. He reports the body and they send out an inexperienced FBI agent who enlists his help in order to try and solve the crime. This leads to some great shots of the landscape, an interesting look at life on the reservation, and it highlights the real life crime against young Native American women and how it often goes unreported and unsolved. I highly recommend this one and I'm really thinking about seeing it again.
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:17 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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This kind of ties in with what I was talking about on the Game of Thrones thread.

So a little while ago was the tenth anniversary of David Fincher's Zodiac. Guillermo Del Toro sent out like 13 tweets about how he loves the movie and he loves it's surreality, although he doesn't use that word. He says that it's a perfect movie and that it's equal to No Country. What an insult!

I kind of love Zodiac, but it has a lot of problems. First of all James Vanderbilt's original script is terrible. This guy sucks. He wrote Amazing Spiderman 2!

Then it hit me. Think of some great dialogue from a GDT film.

...

Now think about the fact that David Fincher has never written a script. This is the same problem I have with Nolan. These guys understand cinematic language, but they don't understand narrative structure. So can you really call them great directors?
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:43 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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I love Zodiac, it's one of my favorite films. There are only a few movies where I found myself getting anxious that it might be coming to a close, because I was enjoying it too much! I'm sure it has problems, but I do love it.
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:17 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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@DPW: For great GDT dialogue see The Devil's Backbone. He has the repeated phrase "que es un phantasma", almost like a chorus, in a few places in the film and it works. Similar to Chuck Palahniuk or GRRM in that they repeat important thematic phrases (Winter is coming) and it keeps us tied to a specific thing.

I think comparing GDT's work to Nolan's in terms of writing is unfair. GDT is a much more interesting writer than Nolan.
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 PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:44 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Caedus_16 wrote:
I think comparing GDT's work to Nolan's in terms of writing is unfair. GDT is a much more interesting writer than Nolan.


That wasn't meant as a criticism of GTD. I don't think either him or Nolan is a bad writer. The emphasis was on cinematic technique.

It's been a long time since I've seen Devil's Backbone, so that might have more rich characterization in writing than some of his other films. I think the problem has a lot to do with his English language films, maybe he's just not as comfortable with it.

But what I was really talking about was Pan's Labyrinth. I think the plot and characterization was kind of weak, but it has a lot of emotional and narrative resonance through cinematic technique. Obviously the fantasy and surreal elements were the primary motif and were very strong. That's the basis which I think he was using, and I was using by comparison, to Zodiac.

Pan's Labyrinth has literal magical fantasy, so that might seem strange to compare it to a realistic true crime movie. Both films have surreal elements and both films depict specific historic periods through semiotics. I know, I'm throwing out a five dollar word there. That means in a nutshell the relationship between a concept and an image. In other words it doesn't express only actual facts and concrete examples of things that show that time period, but uses visual elements that convey the idea of that time period to us.

For example the most common historical short hand is to show an image in sepia tone, which conveys to us instant recognition that it's supposed to be in the past. Of course in reality the past was not sepia toned.
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 PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:50 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I finally got around to seeing Spider-Man: Homecoming. It was fun. It lacked the dramatic weight of the Raimi movies, but I loved how young Peter felt in this movie. It was cool to see him struggling with his powers throughout the movie instead of getting used to them for a few scenes and then being a badass for the rest of the movie.
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:55 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Fun: What is a movie that you are embarrassed to have in your collection, or just that you really like?

Recently Watched: Went to go see Terminator 2 in 3d, but it was sold out. Instead saw Close Encounters 40th anniversary. I hadn't seen it since I was a kid, I thought it was kind of boring then, but I really liked it. I was kind of surprised that Spielberg said he felt like the doorway shot summed up the movie. I thought that was meant to be an homage to Tarkovsky's Mirror, but he didn't say anything about it. I guess that two different director's came up with the same shot independently. I mean, yeah, that happens, but it's not usually one that is so recognizable.

Rant: What's with movie titles that are copying other movies? You have Bad Santa, Bad Grandpa and Bad Teacher. All these movies are about immoral criminals, where the protagonist is at least an antihero if not a villain. Then you have Bad Moms, which you'd think must be about abusive parents, but no, the protagonist is meant to be good and it's just a typical slobs vs. snobs/ girls night out flick.

Boss Baby is about an infant cartoon corporate manager. Baby Driver is about a live action car operator, but he's an adult?

Logan is about the superhero Wolverine. Logan Lucky...I don't know what this film is, but presumably not Hugh Jackman with claws?

Stop making movie titles that are the same as other movies that they have nothing to do with!
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:25 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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@DPW: Well, I'll admit that I've got a few lesser movies in my collection but one that I'm actually a bit sad to admit is that I actually bought the whole 4th season of Family Guy on DVD.
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:11 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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@Dog: I'd say Warm Bodies because it's essentially a rom-com and the comparisons with Twilight are inevitable. I love it though. The soundtrack is probably my favourite from any movie (not including scores).
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 PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:46 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Mother@#$%^!

I didn’t like this movie better when it was called Antichrist. I understand LVT, but that doesn’t make it OK for everyone to be a misanthrope. Why is this a trend? To make these mean spirited films that just make the audience feel bad?

And this is nothing new, it just used to be called Exploitation. It’s funny because Jennifer Lawrence was in Last House On The Left, an Exploitation remake. Torture is passe. There’s nothing to say about it that hasn’t been said. I’m not going to mention A Certain Film and tell you not to google it, because you will and wish that you hadn’t; But you might get my meaning. If you don’t know what any of these movies I mentioned are, that’s for the better.

Really, why can’t these guys come up with anything new? Darren Aronofsky is a hack. He made two good movies and everything else he just mined from other directors.

Sigh. Another one to add to the dreg heap. At this rate Richard Kelly will probably make a garbage film and I will lose all love for cinema.
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 PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:48 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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@DPW: I hate to tell you but Richard Kelly has already made a garbage film. In fact he made one that was bad but interesting and one that was garbage so...yeah.
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:29 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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@C16: I don't think we are using that expression in the same context.

Unless you are talking about his role as a producer on Tucker Max's movie, I liked all of his film works. But sure, taste is subjective.

When I say a "bad" movie, I mean a movie that is lacking in quality of production according to the standards generally agreed upon by film criticism.

A film can be so bad that it becomes absurdist and can be appreciated ironically. That is a "Good Bad film " or "So bad it's good." You know that's a whole subgenre of film.

A bad film can also be appreciated sincerely because it has genuine elements worthy of merit. I've notoriously argued at length on here for that very thing with Rogue One.

A Garbage film is a film that I have judged to be bad, as a moral value statement . Not necessarily for the moral content in the film itself, nor does it have to be a badly produced film. Simply that it's "badness" outweighs any other consideration and renders it without any redeeming merit.

Lest you say, "Yes, that sounds like Southland Tales." Please consider the distinction between that and a film that is hateful, boring, disgusting, exploitative, misogynistic, cliched, pretentious and all under the veneer of a bloated metaphor that unironically betrays the directors shallow Freudianism.

Why do you think that Kelly made a garbage film? I concede that The Box has script and post production problems. I would contest that the main problem of his films is that they are misunderstood. That's the pretentious defense, I know, but I think you have to admit that it's a fact that many people did not understand Donnie Darko. I think that is partly intentional, but I will count it as a problem.

The reason I made the comparison between the two directors is that they were both ranked highly among my favorite contemporary directors.

I'd like to see my criticisms of Mother! and Black Swan addressed; although I liked the later and I mention it because I went into more detail in my critique and most of those things apply as well, generally, to the former.

The main issue is that can you really say that Kelly has made a film that made you hate him, both as a director and as a person?

Ps. I know that the things I said here can be said exactly as truthfully toward Requiem For A Dream. I defended that film because I feel that it does have merits, mostly Ellen Burstyn's role which was great and actually subversive, unlike Lawrence's. Still, at the time I found it to be trite, cliched, and immature, but I believed that the director was capable of further development.
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:18 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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@DPW: I won't say Richard Kelly is a bad person. Heck, I don't know the guy and for all I know he's a big ol' sweetheart.

I mentioned that I think one of his films is interesting but, overall, bad. That would indeed be Southland Tales, a film that I think is full of interesting ideas/visuals but overall lacking in the thematic backing to really drive home what it wants to be. I think that, in the writing department, Kelly very much missed the mark. I saw it, bought it, studied it (and continue to study it) and I just think that I've found all I can find. In fact I think I mined that particular film on first viewing, I was just convinced that there was more to it because it was Richard Kelly and there had to be but I ultimately found it a hollow comedy.

I will not defend The Box in any way. I despise that film, but that doesn't make me hate Richard Kelly. I think there are some interesting themes in that one as well but it fell completely flat for me and in fact, as a Matheson fan, I was a bit insulted by it. The treatment of the two leads as people willing to be hollowly selfish (and not as metaphors, just as human beings) left it something I couldn't connect with.

On the subject of mother! I'm kind of torn. I don't think the words "good" or "bad" can apply to the filmmaking, as it is more than competently shot (and in some cases is even quite daring). The sound design is on the level of a David Lynch film, something more interesting than I've seen in awhile. Where it falters is that it tries to be about too many things. It attempts to be an environmental film, a critique of religion, and even a condemnation of the self-centered artist that fancies himself a genius. In many ways the victim is Aronofsky himself, who spends most of the film painting his career as something full of his own cruelty and longing for adoration instead of something to be admired.

When it comes to the misogynistic qualities of the film I think we can go a bit deeper depending on how you look at it (almost said "attack it" but felt that was inappropriate to the conversation). If you look at it as an environmental allegory first and foremost then it's pretty easy to defend, painting the world as a woman we treat like garbage and abuse into the ground as though the only consequence is our own satisfaction and that nothing suffers. If we look at it as a biblical allegory then that also works (the Bible is one of the most aggressive books towards women that exists). If we look at it through the lense of someone critiquing Hollywood...well, Lawrence was a victim of the Fappening and one of the most disturbing moments, where
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is similar to the things said about her when the imagery came out. Aronofsky clearly has some hangups about his previous relationships and the fact that the introductory image, a woman that looks disturbingly like his ex-wife, is where we start is very indicative of that.

I saw it as an example of maximalist filmmaking. Aronofsky tried to use this as a multilayered film to discuss the very misogyny he's being accused of, and I think his hateful use of the character is meant to be a discussion and not simply him abusing someone onscreen for the sake of being disturbing and garnering attention. He's clearly uncomfortable with the attention he gets from fans, from critics, and from detractors and he's not shy about that.

He did a similar thing in Black Swan, but it was much less violent and allowed the women themselves to gain control. But no matter how you look at mother! there are plenty of ways that it works. I don't think it's either a good or bad film (though it is interestingly written, well paced, well shot, and the sound is phenomenal) but it's fascinating and I actually think the discussion it's seeding is the point.
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