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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:16 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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SwordoftheJedi wrote:
Qui-Gon needs a story only because he is so boring.


Realy? I found Qui-gon to be anything but in the Jedi Aprrentice series.


Reep- I was mainly talking the figures- I see like 3 versions of Maul. Never a Qui-gon Sad
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:27 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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I can see why people might find Qui-Gon boring. A little more background information might help there. Smile
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 PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:55 pm Reply with quote  
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  SwordoftheJedi
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Watching Episode I yesterday, I remembered why I didn't like Qui-Gon at all besides his boringness... Confused

I couldn't stand how he just dissed Shmi like that!!! He purposely turned the cube that he and Watto were betting on to blue so he could get Anakin free and not his mom. I know he wanted both of them at first, but he could've tried a little harder to get her free. He is a Jedi, isn't he? It just always annoyed me that they left Shmi behind.
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 PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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SwordoftheJedi wrote:
Watching Episode I yesterday, I remembered why I didn't like Qui-Gon at all besides his boringness... Confused

I couldn't stand how he just dissed Shmi like that!!! He purposely turned the cube that he and Watto were betting on to blue so he could get Anakin free and not his mom. I know he wanted both of them at first, but he could've tried a little harder to get her free. He is a Jedi, isn't he? It just always annoyed me that they left Shmi behind.


He planed on freeing her- and did- it was him who sent the part that ended up freeing her. I'm sure he'd have made sure to get her had he not died.


Sword have you read the Jedi Apprentice series? I think of him in that- he's too compassionate a Jedi to have left her there with NO way out of slaver after taking her son away. IMO he'd have gone back to make sure she was ok. I think he'd have given Anakin the closure he needed but never received.
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 PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:51 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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I remember something about that. Didn't Qui-Gon send Shmi enough money to free herself or something?
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 PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:51 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Queen Padmè Skywalker wrote:
I remember something about that. Didn't Qui-Gon send Shmi enough money to free herself or something?



We discover in Tatooine Ghost Shmi's journal page 256-57
he sends a box to Shmi by a Falleen courier, and we discover he sent her a Tobal Lens; she gives it to Lars who uses it to get her freedom.

Too me it shows that had he been alive- he'd have gone and seen she was ok.
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 PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:52 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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Ah, yes, I remember that now. Haven't read Tatooine Ghost in awhile. Smile
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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:53 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I don't remember that, but it does put my mind at ease. Smile
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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:30 pm Reply with quote  
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  SwordoftheJedi
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illogicalRogue2 wrote:
Queen Padmè Skywalker wrote:
I remember something about that. Didn't Qui-Gon send Shmi enough money to free herself or something?



We discover in Tatooine Ghost Shmi's journal page 256-57
he sends a box to Shmi by a Falleen courier, and we discover he sent her a Tobal Lens; she gives it to Lars who uses it to get her freedom.

Too me it shows that had he been alive- he'd have gone and seen she was ok.


I'll have to go back and read that, but it could possibly redeem him in my eyes. Smile And I only read the first two books of Jedi Apprentice. Maybe I'll consider reading more if it gives me a better indication of who Qui-Gon really is.
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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:50 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Qui-gon was the Force's Instrument. Wink
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 PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 7:51 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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It's Qui-Gon Jinn week, so let's kick it off! Woohoo!

Alright, to get things going I'm going to ponder a possible "alternative scenario." What if Qui-Gon killed Darth Maul and he went on to train Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, and through the Clone Wars they were a three man team? What sort of significant impacts would that have had?

I ask this because the idea struck me the other day, and I wondered if Qui-Gon survived might he have saved Anakin from falling to the dark side? As things turned out, Obi-Wan was like a brother to Anakin, but Qui-Gon would have been like a father. With both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon pulling for him to return to the light, it certainly would have been more persuasive and harder to resist their reasoning.

In the short time Qui-Gon was around, he made some pretty big leaps in the Force, most notably being able to preserve his identity in the Force, ie. become one with the Force. Given another ten years, Qui-Gon could have achieved some great things, and could have passed that down to his apprentices.

But with that aside, the biggest strength I saw with Qui-Gon was that he was an element of change. He was different from the rest of the Jedi leadership, and for that reason he was not a member of the Council. Qui-Gon was not afraid of change, of striking out boldly in new directions. I think Qui-Gon was the key in keeping the Chosen One on the right path. If he had lived, I think he could have helped teach Anakin in a way that would allowed him more room to be who he was. The harsh strictness of the Jedi Order did not mix well with Anakin, and it led him to his rebellion. I think Qui-Gon would have prevented that. Furthermore, I think Qui-Gon could have changed the entire Jedi Order in such a way, that it would not have fell victim to its corruption.

The Jedi Order was definitely corrupted. Not in the idea that they were taking bribes or hiding murders, but that they had strayed away from the principles of the Living and Unifying Force, the very things that make people compassionate and empathetic. There are a lot of things that could be used to argue the point, but I'm only going to mention one: the Jedi policy of taking younglings away from their parents.

First off, it's not that the Jedi didn't have some ground to stand on with the whole "kidnapping" argument. A strong, Force-sensitive youngling could accidentally use the Force to hurt someone, and could fall to the dark side and cause a lot of destruction. However, the Jedi messed up by adhering to their idea of no attachments. Instead of simply taking the child so they could teach them the proper ways of the Force, the Jedi took the child away from their parents and denied them parents. The parents did not get to come and visit their children when ever they wanted. There were no breaks from Jedi school to visit home. Instead, the children were completely taken away and denied the childhood they normally would have got. The Jedi Order kept the children from living any degree of a normal life.

Now look back at Qui-Gon. He was willing to train Anakin even though he was older than typical younglings. He was also willing to train him despite the sheer power and potential that Anakin had. I say this, because it is somewhat hinted that Yoda and Mace did not want to train Anakin because he had too much potential, too much power, and that could be a dangerous thing. Or perhaps it was because they feared the change he would bring. Either way, their argument that he was too old seemed very weak, and they were quick to hold to it. Yet Qui-Gon was open to change. Had he lived and had he taken a place on the Council, perhaps with Anakin and Obi-Wan by his side thus edging out the old by-the-rules-Order, a positive change could have been brought to the Order as a whole, and maybe the strict lines of attachment could have been loosened.
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 PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:11 am Reply with quote  
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  wookie_inked
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Yes I do believe that Anakin wouldn't have gone to the dark side had Qui-Gon lived and the "balance" prophecy for The Chose One would have played out differently than it did somehow.


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 PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:40 am Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Darth Skuldren wrote:

But with that aside, the biggest strength I saw with Qui-Gon was that he was an element of change. He was different from the rest of the Jedi leadership, and for that reason he was not a member of the Council. Qui-Gon was not afraid of change, of striking out boldly in new directions. I think Qui-Gon was the key in keeping the Chosen One on the right path. If he had lived, I think he could have helped teach Anakin in a way that would allowed him more room to be who he was. The harsh strictness of the Jedi Order did not mix well with Anakin, and it led him to his rebellion. I think Qui-Gon would have prevented that. Furthermore, I think Qui-Gon could have changed the entire Jedi Order in such a way, that it would not have fell victim to its corruption.


I totally agree with you on this Skuldren! I Think that Qui-gon was more of how a Jedi was supposed to be than most of the Jedi on the Council.
I'm sure that if Qui-gon had survived or even if the Council would have just heeded more of Qui-gon's wisdom thing would have turned out for the better.
Too bad Yoda only realises this after Order 66.
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 PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:41 am Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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I have no doubt that the survival of Qui-Gon at Naboo would have resulted in a happy ending for Revenge of the Sith, and a lack of Darth Vader afterwards.

Quote:
As things turned out, Obi-Wan was like a brother to Anakin, but Qui-Gon would have been like a father. With both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon pulling for him to return to the light, it certainly would have been more persuasive and harder to resist their reasoning.


I'm not sure how much the father figure idea would have helped. In Attack of the Clones, Anakin says that Obi-Wan is like a father to him. When Anakin gets older and is no longer Obi-Wan's apprentice, the brother feeling comes into play. Would the same have happened with Qui-Gon?

Remember, Obi-Wan had his flaws under Qui-Gon. I think the same issues that Anakin had during his training with Obi-Wan would have existed under Qui-Gon. Most of that is a personality issue with Anakin that Qui-Gon couldn't change. Where I think Qui-Gon would have been most instrumental in saving Anakin is actually after Anakin's training. Qui-Gon would have ruined Palpatine's plan, for three reasons.

1) Qui-Gon would give Anakin that second person to go to for advice. Would Anakin still be involved with Palpatine? Maybe. But I'm not sure he'd be so deeply influenced. Without Qui-Gon, it's the strict advice of Obi-Wan vs. the always helpful advice of Palpatine.

2) Qui-Gon would have prevented the entire mess with Anakin not being on the council. After all, the council was something that Qui-Gon never aimed for. He even disagreed with it. Perhaps Anakin would realize that a spot on the council and the rank of master is hardly as important if he saw the example of Qui-Gon.

3) This is a bit of a stretch, but I would think that Qui-Gon could help with the Padme visions. He may even have had a solution similar to what Palpatine offered.

There are of course many other ways that Qui-Gon would have influenced the Clone Wars. Would have have trusted Dooku's words of a Sith Lord controlling the government? After all, Dooku was once his master. And how would Palpatine and Qui-Gon play against each-other? Would Palpatine send him away during the events of Revenge of the Sith, like he did with Obi-Wan? So many questions.

A great topic to kick Qui-Gon week off with, Skuldren. Remember, we need to do five more pages of posts to reach our goal. I believe each page takes 15 posts. I have other questions about Qui-Gon that I'll slip in during the day, as soon as one topic stops giving us fuel for conversation.


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 PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:45 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Quote:
I'm not sure how much the father figure idea would have helped. In Attack of the Clones, Anakin says that Obi-Wan is like a father to him. When Anakin gets older and is no longer Obi-Wan's apprentice, the brother feeling comes into play. Would the same have happened with Qui-Gon?


I really have to disagree with you here, OMB. Obi-Wan was a brand-new knight when he became Anakin's master, and only about 15 years older than his padawan. Qui Gon on the other hand, had decades of experience both as a master and a Jedi Knight. Obi-Wan was 25; Qui Gon in his 50s. Plus you have one (Obi-Wan) who's very focused on the Unifying Force, and the other who really understands the strength and necessity of the Living Force. I think having Qui Gon for a master would have made all the difference for Anakin.

Qui Gon wasn't perfect; he had his faults. For instance he was so centered on the Living Force that he completely dismissed Obi-Wan at the start of TPM when his apprentice was sensing something that Qui Gon should have listened to. He did the kind of dismissive master thing. If he'd paid attention, perhaps everything might have turned out differently.

However, I do think Anakin needed the kind of teaching in the Living Force that Qui Gon would have given him. The OJO had lost the deeper meaning of the Living Force in their focus on the Unifying Force, but Qui Gon got it. Obi-Wan could not give that to Anakin; he did not have it himself. He obediently followed the line of the orthodox Jedi Council, centering on the Unifying Force. I think later on Tatooine he delved much more into the Living Force. That's what he passed on to Luke.

You notice that Obi-Wan also never passed on the stricture about attachment to Luke. Wink
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