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 PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:58 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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Not for me. I hated Mortis on TCW, still hate it now.
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 PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:54 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Mortis absolutely changed for me after Apocalypse.

Mortis left it ambiguous as to whether or not the Avatar's of the Force were Celestial's or whether the whole thing even happened at all and wasn't just a Force vision. As a Force vision that showed Anakin about how the Force has become unbalanced, and how he would ultimately turn to the Dark Side before being redeemed and bringing balance, it fit perfectly within the mythology that we knew about.

I assumed that the Avatars of the Force were meant to represent the aspects of the Force: The Father was the Unifying Force representing the balance, his children were the Living Force which is in conflict between the Dark Side and the Light Side.

Apocalypse made it clear that the Avatars were not manifestations of the Force but were Celestial's that somehow became part of the Force by drinking from the Font Of Power, which is evidently the spot from where the Force emerges into the universe. Um, what?

Plus the whole thing with Abeloth was tacked on in a way that was never even hinted at in the Mortis episodes, total retcon. The idea that it is somehow the will of the Force to create monsters to destroy the Galaxy while creating super heroes to battle them is really stupid and I can't see that as being at all consistent with the Force Philosophy we had gotten before.

It tried to be ambiguous about it by saying oh, this is just the Killiks version of events and might not be true.. but we know that Abeloth was on Mortis and that the Avatars exist in pretty much the same way as depicted in that version, so how can it not be true? If we are supposed to doubt that, then it becomes meaningless to even talk about in the first place.

It really undermines the whole idea of the Chosen One, which is stupid to the infinite since that was GL's thing and the whole point of putting Mortis is FOTJ was to reconcile TCW with the EU and instead it just makes them conflict even more.
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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:26 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Quote:
Apocalypse made it clear that the Avatars were not manifestations of the Force but were Celestial's that somehow became part of the Force by drinking from the Font Of Power, which is evidently the spot from where the Force emerges into the universe. Um, what?


In my recollection of the book, Denning only implied that Abeloth drank from the Font of Power to become like the other avatars. He was very cryptic about whether the avatars themselves did it to become what they were. He was also very cryptic about saying whether they were Celestials or whether they were Celestials at one time. There is a lot of fudge room in the way he stated the words. I think it was intentional so the reader could believe what they wanted. Hardly any of it was concrete.

Now Abeloth being made the mother in the Mortis mythology isn't so much a retcon as it is just additional story. TCW created it and Del Rey built upon it. I've got no issues with that, however if TCW ever comes back to it, then I'd be uneasy because continuity could get trampled on. From that stand point, what Del Rey did was risky.
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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:26 am Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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None of it from Apocalypse is concrete. They made it extremely clear several times during the book that the source of the information was completely unreliable. Though I think it was done because they knew Lucas wanted to go back to Mortis at some point and use it without locking Lucas into a set story (not that it would actually happen). So they went that route to prevent any continuity issues down the line.


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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:24 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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But the story of Abeloth's origins is from a million years ago, which means she was already the Mother and all that when Anakin went to Mortis, and thus the roles of the Avatars were what they were designated in Apocalypse... yet they weren't mentioned to Anakin at that time because in reality that wasn't the story at the time, it was created later to change the existing prior storyline. Yeah, I'd call that a retcon not an addition.

I say that "unreliable narrator" is crap because of the reason outlined above. It's not a new situation where we are supposed to be unsure of what it means for the current storyline which is what the plot device is meant to be used for, it's information that is added onto an existing storyline that already had it's own effect and wasn't told from the unreliable narrator POV. So which one is it? If it really is supposed to be unclear then why even put it in the book? that seems like a total copout to justify a stupid storyline and make it convenient to drop that plot point in the future and say it doesn't matter.

That's what we get as so called continuity these days. Anyway, think what you want about it... the question was if FOTJA effected our views on Mortis, so I'm just saying how I feel about it and why it does for me.
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:17 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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For me Apocalypse made it sink in that Mortis is here to stay. It isn't just something I can write off as TCW nonsense, it is now forced into the very fabric of Star Wars.

Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Mortis left it ambiguous as to whether or not the Avatar's of the Force were Celestial's or whether the whole thing even happened at all and wasn't just a Force vision.


The Wizard of Oz ending was the Mortis trilogy's only saving grace for me. I could only accept Mortis as an ambiguous Force vision that can be interpreted and re-interpreted (or better yet Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka were high as kriff on death sticks and the whole thing was a fever dream). However, in Apocalypse, it would appear that it all really happened.
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:54 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Reepicheep wrote:
...(or better yet Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka were high as kriff on death sticks and the whole thing was a fever dream)...


Oh, this would make me a very happy Star wars fan. Somehow or other.
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